Favoriting Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from September 17, 2018 Favoriting

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. Tech, community, video games, and whatever else is next.

Monday 6 - 7pm (EDT) | On WFMU | 91.1, 90.1, 91.9 FM & wfmu.org
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Favoriting September 17, 2018: What happened when Jessamyn West sued Equifax

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This week: Jessamyn West on digital hiring-and-firing, and what happened when she sued Equifax.



Jessamyn's story:

Losing (July 28), her account of the hiring-and-firing experience.

Image of the offer letter (July 2), "The offer letter I got from a tech company you have definitely heard of is an 813 x 6318 px jpg."

The Waking, by Theodore Roethke

Recent Tech News

Google and the ennui of learned helplessness (Neil Turkewitz, July 18): "Google seeds and funds some of its most loyal academic and nonprofit allies by payments . . . Those recipients, in turn, have formally and informally supported or taken up Google’s causes . . . [this] simply compounds the ennui of learned helplessness that artists feel in dealing with the company."

Google’s Dragonfly abandons “don’t be evil” (Matthew Yglesias writing in Vox today, Sept 17): "While normal people like us live in a morality-supporting social context where if I told people, 'I’m going to make some extra cash by helping autocratic regimes spy on their citizens,' they’d be appalled, Google exists in the opposite kind of context." [To be fair, Facebook supports its own autocratic regimes. -mark] Along the same lines, Google Employees Are Quitting Over The Company’s Secretive China Search Project (BuzzFeed News, Sept 13) about a list of "seven employees who say they quit their jobs at Google over a lack of corporate transparency."

New Mexico sues Google, Twitter for illegally collecting data on children (UPI, Sept 16): The lawsuit comes after a University of California, Berkeley study analyzed nearly 6,000 children's apps and found that the majority of them appeared to violate COPPA. "These apps can track where children live, play, and go to school with incredible precision." See also the NYT story.

Where in the World Is Larry Page? (Bloomberg, Sept 13): "Until the Senate hearing, Google had ducked much of the scorn heaped on the social media behemoths, especially Facebook Inc. Yet Google, more than any other tech company, set us on this path to unprecedented data mining and a world in which corporations track us online and off. . . . What’s occupying Page’s time today? People who know him say he’s disappearing more frequently to his private, white-sand Caribbean island."

...and from the Uncanny Valley:

"It's Raining, It's Pouring" story from Boing Boing

- - -

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist Track Album Images Approx. start time
  Jessamyn West sued Equifax - and won. A hopeful case study in taking action against Big Tech.
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Favoriting Machinarium Soundtrack 
Favoriting
 
  Mark's intro    
Favoriting
 
  Interview with Jessamyn West    
Favoriting
0:15:07 (Pop-up)
  Uncanny Valley    
Favoriting
0:31:58 (Pop-up)
  Your calls and comments 201-209-9368    
Favoriting
0:40:35 (Pop-up)
Cult Fantastic  Screens   Favoriting     0:54:58 (Pop-up)


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Listener comments!

Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
ultradamno:

Hello Mark, Techtometers!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
listener james from westwood:

How do, Mark, Jessamyn, and all!
Avatar 6:01pm
TDK60:

Hello Mark, been a while.
Avatar 6:01pm
geezerette:

I am a partial Cretin. :)
Avatar 6:02pm
herb.nyc:

hi mark & all, you can't spell TECHMOLOGY without EMO.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:02pm
Bas NL:

Techtonic time! Hi Mark & Techtonauts!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm
Michael 98145:

we love visiting libraries. and real post offices ...
Avatar 6:03pm
herb.nyc:

more power to Jessamyn - I hope it's good news we're hearing.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm
Crudbringer:

ZOMG, MeFi's Jessamyn!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm
northguineahills:

@Michael: A brand new public library branch just opened two blocks away from my house last month.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm
Rich in Washington:

I always show up after roll call.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:05pm
Bas NL:

Durrrr...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm
Michael 98145:

some newer libraries are really quite inviting
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm
dale:

I AM STILL A TOTAL DULLARD.
Avatar 6:06pm
geezerette:

Rich, you rebel!
  6:06pm
melinda:

Hi all
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm
dale:

....THE INTERNET MADE ME THAT WAY.
Avatar 6:06pm
herb.nyc:

so cute, mark said EN-WE. ain't it pronounced AAWN-WE?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:07pm
Folsom:

Mark, any chance of you having Michael Chertoff on the show? He just put out a book about getting rid of social media, pretty big change from someone who helped write the Patriot act.
  6:07pm
JakeGould:

Learned helplessness is the core of the plot of every Woody Allen movie.
Avatar 6:08pm
TDK60:

Thought of a funny band name: Ennui & the Enthusiasts, but I digress.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:08pm
ultradamno:

In fairness "Don't Be Evil" was really holding Google back from being it's true self.
Avatar 6:09pm
geezerette:

I'm wearing a class ACTION-SUIT !
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:09pm
Webhamster Henry:

Hi 'tonics
Avatar 6:10pm
geezerette:

Google overcame its learned helplessness.
  6:11pm
BigCat:

Have these PLATFIRMS bought any small countries yet??
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:12pm
Webhamster Henry:

But Duck Duck Go works in China, right? Who needs Google?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:12pm
listener james from westwood:

Clint Eastwood had to be physically restrained from addressing the chair.
Avatar 6:14pm
BigCat:

do we know the names of the 7 who left Goggle on principle? re transparency
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:16pm
chris:

the little engine that could (keep track of what you do online)

hi, Mark and tonicians.
Avatar 6:16pm
BigCat:

"circular logic" = "you shouldn't buy these apps that we sell"
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:17pm
ultradamno:

We didn't tell you that you should let your kids get in our van, that's on you.
Avatar 6:17pm
herb.nyc:

helpless? only Neil Young is helpless. wait, mark used word HEGEMONIC. I feel helpless with 4syllable words.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:17pm
Michael 98145:

many agencies are abandoning their internal email servers and forcing employees onto gmail and outlook "services"
Avatar 6:17pm
Sid:

With Google and Android, you are the product. The advertisers are the customer.
Avatar 6:21pm
geezerette:

The New York Times digital subscriptions are connected to Facebook and Google. You are pushed by their graphic design to log in with either of those rather than NYT. It's a racket.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:23pm
Folsom:

@geezerette I use a separate login for NYT digital, it does take more clicks to do that though
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:23pm
Webhamster Henry:

Oh god the crap I go through to not end up getting a job!

And how about needing a credit score to rent an apartment? I predate that!
Avatar 6:24pm
Beast of Boonton:

tracking how long you are interacting with a urinal
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:24pm
northguineahills:

I'm being very unproductive at work currently (no one monitors me, I'm judged by the work I do).
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:25pm
Webhamster Henry:

I'm very productive at my non work currently.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:25pm
Mark Hurst:

Hi everyone, thanks for tuning in this evening!
Avatar 6:27pm
geezerette:

Words like Nation, citizen, person, others I can't think of right now, are fairly drained of meaning. Actually horrifying.
Avatar 6:28pm
Beast of Boonton:

seems they skipped the phone part of interview
  6:29pm
Epz:

Sorry Mark, tonight's guest sounds like a moronic social justice warrior. Additionally, she is cryptic at best with the details of her sob story. Surprised you take her seriously.
Avatar 6:29pm
herb.nyc:

@geezerette. right right right. add privacy to the list.
  6:30pm
gw:

Wacky ass employee .
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:30pm
Mark Hurst:

Have to respectfully disagree with you there, Epz. My sense is that her experience is indicative of where hiring/management is going in the digital economy, hence the relevance
  6:31pm
JakeGould:

Well, I think calling the guest a “Social Justice Warrior” is harsh and trollish, but will say I am having very hard time understanding what any of her story is about. Valid or invalid, I’m quite confused by the way she’s explaining this.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
Mark Hurst:

And yeah, no need for harsh language.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:32pm
northguineahills:

The gig economy is why I left NYC and took a pay cut to work in a more intimate and secure environment.
Avatar 6:32pm
Beast of Boonton:

has anyone checked her Facebook page yet?
  6:33pm
JakeGould:

FWIW, I get that she stood up against Equifax in smalls claims court. But I really don’t get utterly anything else that she is elaborating on.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:34pm
listener james from westwood:

Like her all the more for her use of the verb "kvetched."
Avatar 6:35pm
βrian:

My cat loves to play kvetch.
Avatar 6:36pm
geezerette:

NGH, a definite win. Maybe you're avant garde and that will become a giant trend.
Avatar 6:36pm
Carmichael:

I am a luddite.
Avatar 6:37pm
Linda Lee:

yes, know the terms & conditions prompts very well. likely purposefully difficult to wade through.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:38pm
Webhamster Henry:

I really want to put a T&C on my website that has a nice fee in the middle.

Many of these documents are legally unenforcible.
Avatar 6:38pm
BigCat:

there will be little TRAPS added in to the T& C ha!
Avatar 6:38pm
Linda Lee:

of course we don't read this shit! we want what we want & we want it now.
Avatar 6:39pm
Carmichael:

I'm waiting for a restaurant server to hand me my meal and a set of terms and conditions.
Avatar 6:39pm
BigCat:

"I Agree" to offer my wife and children to Megafuk Inc. upon submitting this form.
Avatar 6:39pm
Linda Lee:

not too bad if they're nourishing..
  6:40pm
Garden Variety Lurker:

Isn't Uber already doing the terms and conditions thing with employees... Or to put it another way isn't the relationship to Uber that an employee has basically a software user sort of relationship?
Avatar 6:40pm
TDK60:

Have you read *all* of the WFMU comments board Etiquette Manual? I just clicked "agree".
Avatar 6:41pm
Linda Lee:

& no one ventures out to look for this child? helpless!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:41pm
Webhamster Henry:

You laugh; check out these pre-nup agreements!
Avatar 6:42pm
Linda Lee:

if it was always the same i'd think technology.
Avatar 6:42pm
Linda Lee:

i was offered a pre-nup agreement once & i laughed my ass off.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:42pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

The official WFMU terms of service, for your reading pleasure: www.wfmu.org...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
listener james from westwood:

HOLY SHIT THIS SAMPLE IS SOME BLACK MIRROR SOUNDING STUFF
Avatar 6:43pm
Linda Lee:

that kid is so clearly a techno-child! there's no echo in a field, people! :-)
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
Webhamster Henry:

This Vehicle is protected by VIPER!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
northguineahills:

My pre-nup was me signing my marriage license, and the ceremony in town halll....
Avatar 6:43pm
geezerette:

Mark, that is so creepy...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
WFMU listener WADE:

that is creepy; awesome.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
ultradamno:

I've seen too many horror movies to ever investigate children singing plaintively in a field at night.
Avatar 6:44pm
geezerette:

L. James, yes!
Avatar 6:44pm
Linda Lee:

you go out in a group with pitchforks.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:44pm
WFMU listener WADE:

that song has a place in American Horror Story.
Avatar 6:45pm
Linda Lee:

helpless? no! pull the damn plug!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:45pm
Webhamster Henry:

I am Webhamster Ennui.
Avatar 6:46pm
geezerette:

Linda Lee, and torches, which has unfortunate connotations these days.
Avatar 6:46pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

- & because of spiders on lenses. Too perfect! HappyHalloween...
Avatar 6:46pm
Linda Lee:

Chertoff! skeletor himself!
Avatar 6:46pm
TDK60:

Ken fHP: Thanks for posting that. I did read that but sort of skimmed/glanced. I should read all the fine print.
Avatar 6:46pm
BigCat:

oops -- everyone on this chat forgot the adbusters.org #occupysiliconvalley
Avatar 6:47pm
Linda Lee:

torches are good. very nice optics.
Avatar 6:47pm
βrian:

Keep calm and carry ennui.
Avatar 6:47pm
geezerette:

L.L., exactly!
Avatar 6:48pm
BigCat:

snarky: "China works in Google" the whole country
Avatar 6:48pm
herb.nyc:

OP-OP-HEUI, is how to say DUCKDUCKGO in cantonese.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:48pm
Webhamster Henry:

Mark predicts: Duck Duck Go will be forced to be Peking Duck Duck Go.
Avatar 6:48pm
Linda Lee:

i fear there is no 'tuchus' in China.
Avatar 6:49pm
geezerette:

...regarding Chertoff,(heh, shirt off...)
Avatar 6:49pm
Sid:

re the FMU regulations: TL; DR. Except for the kibosh part. Can they really do that?
Avatar 6:49pm
geezerette:

shudder...
Avatar 6:49pm
herb.nyc:

spk'ng of SPIDERS, there's a funny about this guy's spider art in book "the internet is a playground"
Avatar 6:49pm
Beast of Boonton:

Wake n Bake banned roll call
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:49pm
Michael 98145:

US of A: E Pluribus Profit
  6:49pm
Serpent Strike:

Hello, Mark! Just finishing up some homework while listening to your show! And yes, indeed, Duck Duck go does work in china. P.S. Duck duck go is my search browser on my laptop!
Avatar 6:50pm
Linda Lee:

& this is why i hang with animals for a living. :-D
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:50pm
melinda:

My favorite part of the terms of service: "WFMU is located in the state of New Jersey, USA. If you really screw things up somehow, you’re going to have to answer to New Jersey."
Avatar 6:51pm
herb.nyc:

New York public library uses google as well. in their internet classes, Microsoft and google are often products that are shilled.
Avatar 6:51pm
geezerette:

Melinda, :D!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm
melinda:

hi geeze
  6:52pm
JP:

Re: Gmail in schools. I work at a k-8 school district, our students are already on Google with faculty/staff being transitioned as I type.
Avatar 6:52pm
Linda Lee:

sure, of course, using google etc is all about cutting costs.
we're cutting costs so faithfully across the business community that we're cutting our own throats.
Avatar 6:52pm
Fredericks:

Equifax is compulsory without asking.
Avatar 6:53pm
Linda Lee:

let's not forget, kids: addiction wins by default, when there's not much else happening.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:53pm
Michael 98145:

if you outsource your email to cloud services, you outsource your responsibility regarding records retention. this is especially concerning in the health care industry.
Avatar 6:54pm
geezerette:

L.L., needlessly building a global dystopia for decades already.
  6:54pm
hello!:

At my (adult ed) school, personal gmail is not compulsory; however, we do use Google classrooms, and those require a gmail address (access to drive).

We give students a new address, and I tell them they should only use it for school work.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:54pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

@JP - The school district here is immersed in Google.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:54pm
Folsom:

Here's the privacy page for the web player that WFMU has farmed out www.radiorethink.com...
mixpanel.com seems to track a lot
Avatar 6:54pm
Linda Lee:

you betcha!
Avatar 6:54pm
βrian:

I have an iphone now. No apps. I won't get another.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:54pm
Webhamster Henry:

iPhone Tennis and iPhone Tenner! Actually the new Apple watch is almost worth having.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:54pm
listener james from westwood:

IIRC WFMU switched to Gmail some years back from one of those old-old text-based email clients.
  6:55pm
hello!:

It’s just an FYI because we can use the tools without giving up all your personal information. Bests!
Avatar 6:55pm
Sid:

Flip phone, bah! I still use my Nokia 6010 candy bar.
Avatar 6:56pm
Linda Lee:

isn't a creepy line what any female person under 70 in any social gathering will generally get?
Avatar 6:56pm
Carmichael:

I have an iphone 8 and series 3 Apple watch. I ... uh ... "under-use" them.
Avatar 6:57pm
geezerette:

Thanks, Mark!
Buddies!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
Michael 98145:

thanks from the left coast
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
northguineahills:

Thanks Mark!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
Bas NL:

Thanks Mark!
Avatar 6:57pm
Linda Lee:

i have a string & a coupla cans.
  6:57pm
JP:

@Ken From Hyde Park - Google Apps, Classroom, etc. I work in IT and was hired on due to my experience with student technology programs. I often wonder what the hell I'm doing in this field.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
Webhamster Henry:

@hello, I suggest everyone get a domain with a catch all email forward in it; that way every service or person you give "your" email to gets an unique address, which can be leaked or compromised without much damage to the rest of your online life.
Avatar 6:57pm
Linda Lee:

thanks again Mark!
Avatar 6:59pm
Beast of Boonton:

Mark - Your show is a great service!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
Webhamster Henry:

Shows about the gig economy in any of its aspects make my blood boil.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
listener james from westwood:

Many thanks, Mark! Jessamyn would make a great semi-regular. MeFi is one of the few online communities not yet run rancid by trolls.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:01pm
Mark Hurst:

Thanks, everyone - appreciate you listening tonight. See you next week!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:03pm
Webhamster Henry:

I just though I'd put in a post-show comment that CVL tokens go on sale tomorrow. I hope to be participating in the Civil process; there's a local newsroom down the street from me. civil.co
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