Favoriting The Laughing Clock with DJ Peter: Playlist from October 13, 2024 Favoriting

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Obscure musical gems, avant experimentation, and classics worth rehearing. A conurbation of Leslie speakers, timbales, plungers, arch-tops, tablas, and squeaky reeds. Black ties, pork pies, Cuban boots, Nudie suits, bobbysocks, turtlenecks, and high-heeled sneakers. Jazz is the north star but it’s a wide universe, so says The Laughing Clock.

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Upcoming events:

Thu. Jan 2nd, 2025, Noon - 3pm: The Laughing Clock fills in for Continental Subway

Favoriting October 13, 2024: Hellwriter 2: Allison Miller

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Playlist image Favoriting

(* = new)

Artist Track Album Label Year Comments Images New Approx. start time
Count Basie  M Squad Theme (excerpt)   Favoriting Basic Basie  MPS  1969  Eric Dixon (fl) Freddie Green (g) Norman Keenan (b) Harold Jones (d) Chico O'Farrill (arr), et al. 
Favoriting
  0:00:00 (Pop-up)

Music behind DJ:
Red Garland 

M Squad Theme   Favoriting

Red In Bluesville 

Prestige 

1969 

4/17/1959: Red Garland (p) Sam Jones (b) Art Taylor (d) 

Favoriting

 

0:00:31 (Pop-up)
Allison Miller  GO!   Favoriting Rivers In Our Veins  Royal Potato Family  2023  2023? Miller - drums, percussion, vibraphone. Jenny Scheinman – violin. Jason Palmer – trumpet. Ben Goldberg - clarinet, contra-alto clarinet. Carmen Staaf - piano, rhodes, accordion. Todd Sickafoose - upright bass. (This track on CD/DL but not LP.) 
Favoriting
*   0:05:55 (Pop-up)
Allison Miller's Boom Tic Boom  The Kitchen   Favoriting No Morphine, No Lilies  Royal Potato Family  2015  February & April 2012: Myra Melford (p) Jenny Scheinman (vln) Todd Sickafoose (b) Allison Miller (d) 
Favoriting
  0:12:10 (Pop-up)
Allison Miller & Carmen Staaf  Weightless   Favoriting Science Fair  Sunnyside  2018  2018? Ambrose Akinmusire (tp) Dayna Stephens (ts) Carmen Staaf (p) Matt Penman (b) Allison Miller (d,perc) 
Favoriting
  0:18:30 (Pop-up)
Artemis  Bow and Arrow   Favoriting Artemis  Blue Note  2020  September 2019: Ingrid Jensen (trumpet), Anat Cohen (clarinets), Melissa Aldana (tenor sax), Renee Rosnes (piano), Noriko Ueda (bass), Allison Miller (drums) 
Favoriting
  0:28:30 (Pop-up)

Music behind DJ:
Don Pullen 

Big Alice (alternate take)   Favoriting

Richard's Tune 

Sackville 

 

2014 CD reissue of "Solo Piano Album" with two bonus tracks. Recorded 1975. 

Favoriting

 

0:34:45 (Pop-up)
Lee Konitz & Martial Solal  Collage on Standards   Favoriting European Episode  Campi Editore  1969  10/12/1968: Lee Konitz (alto sax), Martial Solal (piano), Henri Texier (bass), Daniel Humair (drums) 
Favoriting
  0:39:44 (Pop-up)
Martial Solal  Four Keys   Favoriting Four Keys  MPS  1979  5/8/1979: Lee Konitz (as) Martial Solal (p) John Scofield (g) Niels-Henning Ørsted Pedersen (b) 
Favoriting
  0:56:14 (Pop-up)

Music behind DJ:
Mary Lou Williams 

Medi I   Favoriting

Zoning 

Smithsonian Folkways 

 

1/17/1974, with Bob Cranshaw (bass guitar). DJP edit. 

Favoriting

 

0:59:35 (Pop-up)
Allison Miller's Boom Tic Boom  Zev - The Phoenix   Favoriting Glitter Wolf  Royal Potato Family  2019  Kirk Knuffke (cnt) Ben Goldberg (cl,contra-alto-cl) Myra Melford (p,harmonium) Jenny Scheinman (vln) Todd Sickafoose (b) Allison Miller (d,vib,cel) 
Favoriting
  1:02:51 (Pop-up)
Lux Quartet  Speak Eddie   Favoriting Tomorrowland  Enja  2024  February 2023: Dayna Stephens (as,ts,sop) Myra Melford (p) Scott Colley (b) Allison Miller (d) 
Favoriting
*   1:08:14 (Pop-up)
Allison Miller's Boom Tic Boom  CFS (Candy Flavored Sidewalks)   Favoriting Live at Willisau  Foxhaven  2012  Jenny Scheinman (vln) Myra Melford (p) Todd Sickafoose (b) Allison Miller (d,perc) 
Favoriting
  1:14:35 (Pop-up)
Allison Miller & Carmen Staaf  What?!   Favoriting Science Fair  Sunnyside  2018  2018? Ambrose Akinmusire (tp) Dayna Stephens (ts) Carmen Staaf (p) Matt Penman (b) Allison Miller (d,perc) 
Favoriting
  1:20:37 (Pop-up)

Music behind DJ:
Susie Ibarra Trio 

Dreams (Alternate Take)   Favoriting

Radiance 

Hopscotch 

1999 

7/18/1999: Cooper-Moore (p,harp,diddley-bo) Charles Burnham (vln) Susie Ibarra (d,perc) 

Favoriting

 

1:28:54 (Pop-up)
Terry Gibbs Dream Band  The Fat Man   Favoriting Volume Two: The Sundown Sessions  Contemporary  1987  November 1959: Lou Levy (piano), Conte Candoli (trumpet), Terry Gibbs (comp), Manny Albam (arr) 
Favoriting
  1:35:01 (Pop-up)
Terry Gibbs  You Don't Know What Love Is   Favoriting The Exciting Terry Gibbs Big Band!!!!!!  Verve  1961  January 1961: Al Cohn (arr) 
Favoriting
  1:42:05 (Pop-up)
Terry Gibbs Dream Band  The Subtle Sermon   Favoriting Vol. 6: One More Time  Contemporary  2002  March? or November 1959: Lou Levy (p), Charlie Kennedy (as), Lee Katzman (tp), Bobby Burgess (tb), Bill Perkins (ts), Sy Johnson (comp, arr) 
Favoriting
  1:47:23 (Pop-up)

Music behind DJ:
Herbie Hancock 

Mimosa (alternate take)   Favoriting

Inventions & Dimensions 

Blue Note 

 

8/30/1963: Herbie Hancock (p) Paul Chambers (b) Willie Bobo (d) Osvaldo "Chihuahua" Martinez (bongos, finger cymbal) 

Favoriting

 

1:56:35 (Pop-up)
Terry Gibbs Dream Band  The Song Is You   Favoriting Vol. 7: The Lost Tapes, 1959  Whaling City Sound  2024  November 1959: Gibbs (vibes), Bill Perkins (tenor sax), Bill Holman (arr) 
Favoriting
*   2:01:04 (Pop-up)
Lee Konitz Quartet  The Song Is You   Favoriting Jazz à Juan  Steeplechase  1977  7/26/1974: Lee Konitz (as) Martial Solal (p) Niels-Henning Ørsted Pedersen (b) Daniel Humair (d) 
Favoriting
  2:03:40 (Pop-up)
Lee Konitz & Martial Solal  Cherokee   Favoriting Star Eyes: Hamburg 1983  hatOLOGY  1998  11/11/1983: Lee Konitz (as) Martial Solal (p) 
Favoriting
  2:11:40 (Pop-up)

Music behind DJ:
Max Roach & Abdullah Ibrahim 

Acclamation   Favoriting

Streams of Consciousness 

 

 

9/20/1977. Originally on Baystate (Japan). 

Favoriting

 

2:17:18 (Pop-up)
Artemis  Goddess of the Hunt   Favoriting In Real Time  Blue Note  2023  August 2022: Ingrid Jensen (trumpet, flugelhorn), Nicole Glover (tenor sax), Alexa Tarentino (soprano sax), Renee Rosnes (piano), Noriko Ueda (bass), Allison Miller (drums) 
Favoriting
*   2:19:25 (Pop-up)
Allison Miller  The Dancing Tide   Favoriting Rivers In Our Veins  Royal Potato Family  2023  2023? Miller - drums, percussion, vibraphone. Jenny Scheinman – violin. Jason Palmer – trumpet. Ben Goldberg - clarinet, contra-alto clarinet. Carmen Staaf - piano, rhodes, accordion. Todd Sickafoose - upright bass. Special Guest Tap Dancers: Claudia Rahardjanoto, Michelle Dorrance, Elizabeth Burke, Byron Tittle, Orlando Hernandez. (This track on CD/DL but not LP.) 
Favoriting
*   2:26:41 (Pop-up)
Lee Konitz  On Green Dolphin Street   Favoriting Satori  Milestone  1975  9/30/1974: Lee Konitz (as) Martial Solal (p) Dave Holland (b) Jack DeJohnette (d) 
Favoriting
  2:32:28 (Pop-up)
Terry Gibbs Dream Band  Just Plain Meyer   Favoriting Vol. 6: One More Time  Contemporary  2002  March? or November 1959: Pete Jolly (p), Med Flory (ts), Bob Brookmeyer (comp, arr) 
Favoriting
  2:38:09 (Pop-up)
Terry Gibbs  Stardust   Favoriting Dream Band  Contemporary  1986  March 1959 at The Seville. Conte Candoli (tp), Bill Holman (arr) 
Favoriting
  2:42:05 (Pop-up)
Terry Gibbs Dream Band  The Big Cat   Favoriting Explosion!  Mercury  1962  April 1962: Joe Maini (as), Conte Candoli (tp), Al Cohn (comp, arr) 
Favoriting
  2:45:18 (Pop-up)
Allison Miller's Boom Tic Boom  Nuh-Uh, No Sir   Favoriting No Morphine, No Lilies  Royal Potato Family  2015  February & April 2012: Steve Bernstein (slide-tp) Myra Melford (p) Jenny Scheinman (vln) Todd Sickafoose (b) Allison Miller (d). CD bonus track 
Favoriting
  2:49:45 (Pop-up)

Music behind DJ:
Joe Chambers Moving Picture Orchestra 

M Squad Theme   Favoriting

Live at Dizzy's Club Coca-Cola 

Savant 

2012 

September 2011. Craig Handy (tenor sax), David Weiss (trumpet), Xavier Davis (piano), Dwayne Burno (bass), Joe Chambers (drums, vibes, arranger), Steve Berrios (percussion), et al. 

Favoriting

 

2:53:32 (Pop-up)


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Listener comments!

Avatar Swag For Life Member 5:52pm
doctorjazz:

Big Allison Miller fan (seen her a couple of times). Driving back to Joisey from NYC, but will listen on the road.
Hi DJP, Clockmeisters!
Avatar 🕰 5:59pm
Listener Gregory:

Yes, Allison Miller's records are consistently very good. In my humble opinion!
  6:05pm
Jeff g. via app:

Agreed! Hello!
Avatar 🕰 6:05pm
Listener Gregory:

If you played the Allison Miller/Lee Konitz record, you'd have both bases covered.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:05pm
doctorjazz:

Gibbs 100 birthday article (in a Jewish magazine, no less)
forward.com...
Avatar 🕰 6:07pm
Ivan from Woodbridge:

Good evening DJ Peter and all,
  🕰 Swag For Life Member 6:07pm
WR:

Hello DJ Peter and folks.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm
DJ Peter:

Good evening Ivan, jeff g., WR, Gregory, and a commuting doctorjazz (please no chatboard while driving)!

Would love to hear Miller, Konitz, Solal, and Gibbs together. No basses but four bases covered.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm
A Bump in Burbank:

Don't have my 🎃 yet...
It's coming, it's coming.
Go!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
DJ Peter:

We welcome the pumpkin less as well as those pumped full
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm
doctorjazz:

↳ DJ Peter @6:09
Soon as I'm on the road, you won't hear from me (waiting on family, bringing boxes to bring back to Joisey)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm
doctorjazz:

↳ Song: "GO!" by "Allison Miller"
Wotta band!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
doctorjazz:

Love Boom Tic Boom?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm
DJ Peter:

↳ doctorjazz @6:12
Saw them live via Ars Nova Workshop, with video and a tap dancer: really special!

Boom Tic Boom on the way...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:15pm
doctorjazz:

↳ doctorjazz @6:13
Love Boom Tic Boom!
Saw them in the basement room at Birdland.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:16pm
doctorjazz:

↳ Song: "The Kitchen" by "Allison Miller's Boom Tic Boom"
A shrunken down Bpom Tic Boom, very nice though!
  6:36pm
Listener Gregory:

Glover
  6:40pm
Listener Gregory:

I heard the second version of Artemis earlier this year, and I liked it significantly more than the band’s first record. I also got Nicole Glover’s recent record, which I thought was good. She is solid but not showy.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:40pm
DJ Peter:

↳ Listener Gregory @6:36
Thank you!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm
DJ Peter:

↳ Listener Gregory @6:40
Agreed, I'm a big Nicole Glover fan. She and Jensen had a good rapport. Rosnes assumes the role of elder statesperson. Miller throws bombs at everyone.
Avatar 🕰 6:47pm
Listener Gregory:

↳ DJ Peter @6:43
Yes, I wonder if they had too many leaders in the first band.
Avatar 🕰 6:50pm
Listener Gregory:

I heard Lee Konitz play at Jazz Forum Arts in Westchester Co... it must have been the late 2010s. The MC pointed out that Konitz played the opening night at Birdland (with Tristano), with Bird also on the bill. I could not believe that I was hearing someone who had actually done that.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:50pm
DJ Peter:

↳ Listener Gregory @6:47
I agree it didn't quite cohere.
Avatar 🕰 6:55pm
Listener Gregory:

↳ Song: "Collage on Standards" by "Lee Konitz & Martial So...
Is Konitz playing through some kind of electronics? Maybe you said this.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
DJ Peter:

It is listed simply as "electric alto sax." I think it's a "varitone sax" but maybe "varitone" is a trademark?
  7:12pm
Listener Gregory:

Huh! Never heard of it.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:17pm
DJ Peter:

↳ Listener Gregory @7:12
Got $20K laying around?
www.robertoswinds.com...
  🕰 Swag For Life Member 7:28pm
WR:

↳ DJ Peter @6:56
I know of the Varitone sax mostly because Eddie Harris featured it in his recordings.
en.wikipedia.org...
  7:29pm
Listener Gregory:

The Konitz performance used it as a mild doubling. I’m not sure what the rationale for it was.
  🕰 Swag For Life Member 7:29pm
WR:

↳ DJ Peter @7:17
Interesting, never looked closely at a Varitone before.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:31pm
doctorjazz:

Made it home to Joisey.
Saw Konitz a number of times back in the day (he had frequent gigs downtown NYC for a while).
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:32pm
tom tom the pipers son:

hello peter and all...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:37pm
doctorjazz:

Original name of Terry Gibbs…
Julius Herbert Gubenko
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:37pm
DJ Peter:

Hey tom tom, hello again! Glad you made it home safe doc.

What are people dining on? Extending my show over the dinner hour means I'm not always eating a regular meal. But have some fruit and nuts at hand.

Make me envious! What you got, folks?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:39pm
DJ Peter:

↳ doctorjazz @7:37
a typically cranky Ted Gioia piece on Gibbs: www.honest-broker.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:40pm
tom tom the pipers son:

↳ DJ Peter @7:37
i resolved problems with the text work i was doing @ www.mooreart.net
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:41pm
doctorjazz:

↳ DJ Peter @7:37
Had a late Falafel lunch- will go for leftovers if I'm hungry (beef barley soup, chicken with lentils, and few bagels with lox or sable, tuna with shells (prepared a lot for before and after the Yom Kippur fast).
  🕰 Swag For Life Member 7:43pm
WR:

I had a big lunch today, vege omelet with home fries and a bacon/cheese/egg/spinach on brioche bun sandwich. Tonight, just what a local bakery calls "oatmeal bread" but is like a cross between a scone the size of a large fist and raisin oatmeal cookie and glass of warm milk.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:44pm
DJ Peter:

↳ tom tom the pipers son @7:40
That's a really intriguing revision! Are you still thinking poster size or is scale affected now?
  🕰 Swag For Life Member 7:44pm
WR:

↳ doctorjazz @7:41
oh, doctorjazz, that sounds so very good.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:44pm
tom tom the pipers son:

↳ WR @7:43
that lunch sounds great
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:44pm
DJ Peter:

↳ WR @7:43
You had me until "size of a large fist"
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:45pm
DJ Peter:

The first Mrs. DJP was Jewish and I do miss the food. But not enough to reach out to her.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:49pm
doctorjazz:

↳ tom tom the pipers son @7:40
Interesting article- and the music has me wanting to get the album. Indeed, it's quite a band!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:51pm
DJ Peter:

↳ doctorjazz @7:49
I came to Gibbs relatively recently. Had I realized Mel Lewis was the drummer I would have sought out these records sooner.

I was already a fan of Bill Holman's and Sy Johnson's writing, but I didn't really appreciate Al Cohn's arranging until hearing these records.
Avatar 🕰 7:52pm
Listener Gregory:

↳ DJ Peter @7:17
You know, it was lying around here somewhere... where did I put it??
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:53pm
tom tom the pipers son:

↳ DJ Peter @7:44
no not thinking of them as posters, they are small now, but that might change when i get a projector....i'm happy with them now and am envisioning it'll lead to a lot of work . i felt i had to interject drawing into the equation to "ground" the work...otherwise i felt it was too conceptual
Avatar 🕰 7:54pm
Listener Gregory:

I was roasting turkey thighs, but I believe I have overdone them. I followed the recipe, I swear.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:55pm
DJ Peter:

↳ tom tom the pipers son @7:53
I'm gonna have to think about that. Normally I'd think of photography as grounded and drawing as conceptual: but I take it you're addressing the interaction of text and image? Interesting.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:57pm
doctorjazz:

Terry Gibbs website (I Helen's the album is available there)
www.terrygibbs.net
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:59pm
doctorjazz:

↳ Listener Gregory @7:54
Whenever I cook Any meat, I use an instant thermometer (recipe times ate unreliable, ovens can have temperatures different than what it tells you it's at).
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:00pm
doctorjazz:

↳ Song: "The Subtle Sermon" by "Terry Gibbs Dream Band"
Pretty nice sounding, especially for what's an amateur recording).
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:02pm
tom tom the pipers son:

↳ DJ Peter @7:55
yes, i think i think of it the other way round just because the act of drawing deals more with physical material than the act of photographing, it's actually a hard thing to parse
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:02pm
DJ Peter:

I think they were mostly engineered by Wally Heider so... not an amateur at all!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:03pm
doctorjazz:

↳ DJ Peter @8:02
Thought i read that in one of the articles, that they were for Gibbs own private use, but that makes sense.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:05pm
tom tom the pipers son:

↳ Song: "The Song Is You" by "Lee Konitz Quartet"
i like this especially the beginning when there was no swing
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:06pm
doctorjazz:

Gotta run, catch the last hour tomorrow, thanks for the five music DJP!
Avatar 🕰 8:08pm
Listener Gregory:

↳ Song: "The Song Is You" by "Lee Konitz Quartet"
I sometimes tune in Music Choice's Jazz channel on cable, while waiting for the news to come on. They often provide factoids on the screen to accompany the music. Once I saw the following: "In cool jazz, the saxophone plays with little or no bravado." Freudian slip??
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:09pm
DJ Peter:

↳ Listener Gregory @8:08
that's perfect
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:09pm
coelacanth∅:

Greetings Peter
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:10pm
DJ Peter:

coelacanthø -- just the person I was thinking of when I realized I misspelled NHØP's name above!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:14pm
coelacanth∅:

↳ DJ Peter @8:10
is that an artist name? i don't sse it over there.
...danish? norwegian? ...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:16pm
tom tom the pipers son:

Niels-Henning Ørsted Pedersen (b)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:16pm
coelacanth∅:

↳ Song: "Four Keys" by "Martial Solal"
oh i see it!
  8:17pm
Listener Gregory:

If this is a battle between piano and sax, Konitz is winning it.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:22pm
DJ Peter:

↳ Listener Gregory @8:17
I thought Solal sounded great!
  8:24pm
Listener Gregory:

He seemed a bit slow on the uptake.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:28pm
tom tom the pipers son:

↳ tom tom the pipers son @8:02
sorry fixing dinner....but i see what you're idea is with drawing...eye--->brain----> to hand....more conceptual
Avatar 🕰 8:32pm
Listener Gregory:

↳ Song: "The Dancing Tide" by "Allison Miller"
I think this is quite good in spite of the tap dancing.
Avatar 🕰 8:34pm
Listener Gregory:

↳ Song: "On Green Dolphin Street" by "Lee Konitz"
This is a rhythm section.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:34pm
DJ Peter:

And yet they've decided not to play together
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:35pm
tom tom the pipers son:

↳ Song: "On Green Dolphin Street" by "Lee Konitz"
dig the piano on this
Avatar 🕰 8:43pm
Listener Gregory:

↳ Song: "On Green Dolphin Street" by "Lee Konitz"
Awesome performance, IMHO.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:43pm
tom tom the pipers son:

i wonder if there's such thing as vibraphilia where you just want to take mallets to anything available.....but that's han bennink
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:44pm
DJ Peter:

↳ tom tom the pipers son @8:43
:-)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:49pm
tom tom the pipers son:

i might have switched text on cover.... "excitement"...."explosive big band"
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:50pm
DJ Peter:

↳ tom tom the pipers son @8:49
look the artist had a tough enough time drawing "explosion" and now you want them to draw "excitement"?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:52pm
DJ Peter:

↳ Song: "Nuh-Uh, No Sir" by "Allison Miller's Boom Tic Boom"
Live and Let Die I always say
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:53pm
tom tom the pipers son:

↳ DJ Peter @8:50
that did cross my mind but illustration could still be used .,..just throw in some musicians
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:54pm
tom tom the pipers son:

oh that time....goodnight peter...all
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:59pm
coelacanth∅:

Thanks Peter!
  🕰 Swag For Life Member 8:59pm
WR:

Thank you! DJ Peter!

Laters all.
  8:59pm
Listener Gregory:

Tip for all: Do not watch Artemis bathing, unless you want to be torn apart by your own hounds.
  9:00pm
Listener Gregory:

Thanks, Peter! Excellent show.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 9:00pm
DJ Peter:

↳ Listener Gregory @8:59
but i couldn't help it...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 9:01pm
DJ Peter:

thanks everybody!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:45am
doctorjazz:

Just finished the last hour that I missed last night, dug it! Have some (not all) the Miller stuff (since I get vinyl usually, missing the "bonus" tracks even on the ones I have-Otis Was a Polar Bear was particularly different in digital and LP versions (though I thought the album held together better on the LP version-you missed that one, one of my favorites!)
Anyway, thanks for the deep dives, need that Gibbs.
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