Favoriting Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from September 24, 2018 Favoriting

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

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Favoriting September 24, 2018: M.A. Taylor, director, "The Creepy Line" - and Dr. Robert Epstein

Listen to this show: Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

This week: M.A. Taylor, director of the new documentary "The Creepy Line," with (past Techtonic guest) Dr. Robert Epstein, also featured in the film



Pointers to M.A. Taylor and Dr. Epstein:

The Creepy Line website, which includes the trailer

Taming Big Tech: The Case for Monitoring, by Dr. Robert Epstein (also linked on the playlist page full o' links from July 30, when he was on the show)

Washington Post op-ed from 2013 about Google and elections by Dr. Robert Epstein, referenced in our interview this evening

The Verge's negative review of The Creepy Line (Sept 19), which I disagree with - I think the reviewer covered politics, rather than technology, and so missed the larger point of the documentary. But worth seeing a counterpoint to my positive review.

PJMedia's positive review of The Creepy Line (Sept 23): "During the interview, Epstein lamented Trump's win and his presidency, but he insisted that Google's power is a much more important and terrifying issue."

The Real Google Censorship Scandal, by Kara Swisher (NYT op-ed, Sept 13): "Conservatives have been spreading the canard that social media companies oppress their views — a drum Mr. Trump has himself been banging on lately. ... I am astonished by the focus on this ridiculous scandal when a much more important issue concerning Google and censorship has been largely ignored by the public and by Washington. I’m talking about the fact that Google is considering re-entering the Chinese market after leaving it with a lot of righteous indignation less than a decade ago."

Recent Tech News

John Oliver on Facebook (Sept 23, Last Week Tonight): (NSFW language - don't turn up loud in the middle of the office, or around kids)

Alexa, Blow My Mind by Scott Galloway (Sept 21) - good review of recent launches by Apple and Amazon. On iOS vs. Android: "The Mecca of innovation, Apple’s Special Events, [is] where they announce the accessories of the global wealthy. If you think you’re buying into a differentiated ecosystem or technology, think again — the Galaxy and Android are pretty close. You’re buying into a cohort, the global affluent, and the entry fee is the monthly disposable income of a household in Hungary. An Android phone can be had for free, with a contract, but will molest you for data, pulling 10x more data points than iOS." As for Amazon, "Amazon announced a plethora of items that explain one freakishly hard to believe piece of data: Amazon’s Alexa group has had more open job positions than all of Google. Put another way, the brightest young minds in the world aren’t working at Instagram, the NSA, NASA, or Bottega Veneta, but at Alexa."

The White House is considering an antitrust investigation into 'online platform bias' at Google and Facebook (Business Insider, Sept 22): "The president and other conservatives have repeatedly complained that they believe Facebook and Google (owned by corporate parent Alphabet) bias the way they show news to users by dampening down conservative voices or outlets."

Google CEO Warns Staff: Stay Nonpartisan (WSJ, Sept 21): "Recent disclosures have fueled concerns Google’s search results favor liberal views over conservative ones.... An email chain from January 2017, days after the Trump administration instituted a controversial travel ban, showed Google employees discussing how they might be able to tweak the company’s search functions to show users how to contribute to pro-immigration organizations and contact lawmakers and government agencies, according to internal company emails. 'Recent news stories reference an internal email to suggest that we would compromise the integrity of our search results for a political end,' Mr. Pichai said to employees. 'This is absolutely false.'"

Rescripting Search To Respect The Right To Truth, from Georgetown Law Technology Review (2018). As danah boyd puts it, "Deirdre Mulligan & Daniel Griffin make the brilliant case for how the Google cannot hold onto its obsession with neutrality given how people see search and how search is being manipulated."

• And about Kara Swisher's op-ed mentioning Google and China: Google Suppresses Memo Revealing Plans To Closely Track Search Users In China (The Intercept, Sept 21): "The Intercept has learned [Google's] plan to launch a censored search engine in China... The memo, authored by a Google engineer who was asked to work on the project, disclosed that the search system, codenamed Dragonfly, would require users to log in to perform searches, track their location — and share the resulting history with a Chinese partner who would have 'unilateral access' to the data.... According to three sources familiar with the incident, Google leadership discovered the memo and were furious that secret details about the China censorship were being passed between employees who were not supposed to have any knowledge about it."

...and from the Uncanny Valley:

Spotify Teams Up With Ancestry to Create DNA-Curated Playlists (Complex.com, Sept 23)

United Nations Accidentally Exposed Passwords And Sensitive Information To The Whole Internet (The Intercept, Sept 24): "The United Nations accidentally published passwords, internal documents, and technical details about websites when it misconfigured popular project management service Trello, issue tracking app Jira, and office suite Google Docs."

Delta to start scanning faces at airport check-in (TechCrunch, Sept 20): "Delta will later this year roll out facial recognition at its terminal at Atlanta International Airport for anyone traveling on an international flight. The airline said the biometric facial scanning is optional — a move that will shave off a few minutes off each flight — but will help border and pre-flight security authorities before jetting out of the US. It’s the latest roll-out of facial recognition trials at Detroit Metropolitan and New York John F. Kennedy airports."

- - -

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist Track Album Comments Images Approx. start time
  M.A. Taylor, director of the new documentary "Creepy Line," and Dr. Robert Epstein (featured in the film) talk about manipulations worldwide that Google and Facebook have the ability to carry out.
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Favoriting Machinarium Soundtrack   
Favoriting
 
  Mark's intro      
Favoriting
 
  Interview with M.A. Taylor and Dr. Robert Epstein      
Favoriting
0:21:30 (Pop-up)
  Uncanny Valley      
Favoriting
0:50:15 (Pop-up)
  Your calls and comments 201-209-9368      
Favoriting
0:47:20 (Pop-up)
Youngsta  Wes Kaap (2-minute shower version)   Favoriting   from South Africa's Two Minute Shower Songs    0:55:58 (Pop-up)


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Listener comments!

Avatar 6:01pm
Linda Lee:

Mark Hurst! good evening!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
Bas NL:

Hi Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
ultradamno:

Hello Mark! Techtopolitans!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
listener james from westwood:

How do, Mark and all!!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm
listener james from westwood:

Kara Swisher has been killing it with those NYT op/ed pieces, as one might expect.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm
chris:

why, yes, i will have a tech-n-tonic, please. hi, everyone.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm
listener james from westwood:

Also, per your excerpt from Wake and Bake, we may need a New York-y district name for the chunk of Chelsea Google now owns. Searchpoint? Billionsburg?
Avatar 6:06pm
Linda Lee:

as long as Facebook exists, there's reason for negative coverage.
  6:07pm
melinda:

Hi all
Avatar 6:07pm
TDK60:

Hi Mark. Darn I gotta leave soon...
Avatar 6:09pm
Jeff Moore:

Tee hee.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Whut?...I had a problem w/ fb & Google - & I got their Customer Service persons directly immediately & they solved my problem sensitively & intelligently w/ persona; attention...right.
Avatar 6:09pm
Linda Lee:

that's it. i'm calling it Shitface.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm
Michael 98145:

don't forget to flush
Avatar 6:10pm
Linda Lee:

bring your plunger!
  6:11pm
melinda:

@LL I used to call it Shitbook
Avatar 6:11pm
Linda Lee:

might as well continue :-D
Avatar 6:12pm
Linda Lee:

one more time: if the product is free, you're the product.
Avatar 6:13pm
northguineahills:

@LL: But sometimes I like to get shitfaced!
Avatar 6:14pm
Linda Lee:

me too .. after using Shitface! :-D
  6:15pm
melinda:

I read that Apple just killed off several phone models, including ones with headphone jacks. Sigh.
Avatar 6:15pm
Linda Lee:

'course if you get online with an apple product you pay *and* you're the product. it's marvelous.
Avatar 6:17pm
geezerette:

Everything today is politics. We're in one of those moments.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:17pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

...& you can't even change the battery...fine till it was SteveJobs' own liver - truth...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:18pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Orwell said no not being Political, yeah.
Avatar 6:18pm
Linda Lee:

100% right, Mark. social media has no politics. it's more like cancer.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:19pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

...everything going Bluetooth - broadcast yer headphone choices - whynot...
Avatar 6:19pm
geezerette:

Political parties are nearly beside the point; politics are larger than that now.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Orwell a real Prophet of how Language, Thought, & Politics intersect...Marshall McLuhan told us we were in a new world as well as far as Form & Content would relate...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm
mrdonutsu:

No only do I not think most people can separate out ideology from any critical analysis of this, I don't think they even want to.
Avatar 6:20pm
Linda Lee:

it's no secret to many that facebook suppresses content & thereby depresses discourse.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:21pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

I say - KILL THUH BASTURDS! You know you hat them!...Join me NOW!...
Oh sorry - force of habit...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:22pm
mrdonutsu:

This is all going to lead us to these companies being nationalized and government mandated and controlled. It is not going to cause them to go away in any fashion.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:22pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Well - the Financial Crisis destabilized the Media & Democracy - & the Right Wing (POLITICS) wants to Deregulate everything...News & Entertainment became one - & a whole generation expects it...
  6:23pm
Epz:

I hope no liberals or SJWs were triggered by the fact that Mark spoke about conservative viewpoints being surpressed! #runtoyoursafespace
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

...whoever the highest bidder is...for everything...
Avatar 6:24pm
geezerette:

Mark, this program is so valuable.
Avatar 6:25pm
Linda Lee:

social media is totally co-opted by government intelligence in any case. it's basically already the same entity, just as corporate wealth & corporate interests are generally the same entity as our governance. they aren't two different things any more. it's one thing.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:25pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

News does not get Sponsors (money) from providing real information now - it gets it for entertaining.../ validating - what have you...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:25pm
chris:

had to look up with SJW means. lol! i'm a SJW. cool!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

As Chomsky says - The Business Party - w/ two branches...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm
chris:

*what, not with
Avatar 6:26pm
Linda Lee:

media deregulation went into hyperdrive under Clinton. not 'right wing' according to the public imagination. but honestly ..
Avatar 6:27pm
Linda Lee:

our concepts of left/right are becoming ridiculous.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:27pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Yes - the New Democrats...NeoLiberals. A Clinton.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm
Mark Hurst:

Hi everyone, thanks for tuning in & commenting this evening

@geezerette, thanks - and I agree, ultimately it's about politics - in that it's about the sharing (or not) of power. Right now there's an imbalance in favor of opaque tech cos, hence this interview.

Hi again, @Epz - all voices welcome here, even if they disagree, as long as they're respectful.
Avatar 6:28pm
Linda Lee:

center-right GOP Lite. if that.
  6:28pm
Tom P:

Wow, all these disclaimers about the source of the clip you are airing. Sounds like you are really afraid of a liberal backlash. That really says something.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Can we talk about how fair & safe Elections are imperiled by Tech?
Avatar 6:30pm
Linda Lee:

divorce your emotions from political discussion & any discussion at all is possible. just don't get all het up about it. that enables your manipulation.
Avatar 6:30pm
Linda Lee:

hello HAPA!
Avatar 6:31pm
glenn:

meh. i despise the right wing, and i make no bones about it.
Avatar 6:31pm
Linda Lee:

sorry, that was HAVA. the Hinder American Voting Act. not that there's any actual choice presented, ultimately.
Avatar 6:33pm
Linda Lee:

once an individual is in the position to win your vote, they're beyond helping you. really.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

The Electoral Process was sold out by Citizen's United. Done deal. Money should have nothing to do w/ Democratic Elections - but is has more & more & more & more.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm
Mark Hurst:

@Tom, not how I see it - instead for this show, I think it's important to distinguish between politics (of any stripe) and the underlying relevance to tech. I made a similar comment here last week in the other direction: the story is relevant because of the *precedent* that's being set, not because of the specific group being affected.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Congressional Reps are telemarketers: they have to spend most of their time fundraising just to be there.
Avatar 6:34pm
Linda Lee:

darling we're only looking at the logical conclusions of the exclusion of the non-moneyed from the political process. & that's built in.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

- & these Tech Giants are Monopolies.
Avatar 6:36pm
Linda Lee:

100% right Mark. & we're all being jerked around so severely & purposefully by our politically-driven media, we can barely breathe without considering it a sign of political affiliation..
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:36pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

After the Financial Crisis - every Media Source knows in great detail who precisely butters which side of their bread - & what that Source wants promoted.
  6:37pm
SerpentStrike:

Nice show, Mark! #Google manipulation. Best DJ ever. Huge fan.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:37pm
Mark Hurst:

@Linda, thanks - my thoughts exactly. The left/right thing is so artificial, like "you must choose! Coke or Pepsi"... when there's an overriding threat to ALL of us from Big Tech. The question should be, do we (of all parties) want a democracy that works, at all?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:37pm
Mark Hurst:

@SerpentStrike thanks!
  6:38pm
Tom P:

@Mark H - I completely agree. This subject is totally relevant no matter what political stripe you wear (or not). My point is he spent more than five minutes explaining why he is using a "right wing" source, I assume to mollify the left.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:38pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

All I wanted was a Pepsi, and Mark wouldn't give it to me!
  6:38pm
SerpentStrike:

Heh Heh
Avatar 6:39pm
Linda Lee:

a bit late for that one, Mark! in 'save our democracy' discussions i always feel like Gandhi when asked his opinion about western civilization: 'i think it would be a good idea'.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:40pm
Mark Hurst:

@Tom thanks. Just trying to be clear to set up a good discussion, is all. Anyway hope you enjoy the interview & the documentary

@Linda - if I really thought it was too late, I wouldn't be hosting this show! Definitely still have hope.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:40pm
Mark Hurst:

@Ken, I *can* offer you a Mr. Pibb
  6:41pm
Jack:

Mark, your show is great! Re: Alternatives to Google services: what's a decent replacement for Google Earth? Also, Google Translate? I have found other mapping software/web services, but nothing as good as Google Earth, or Translate. Any suggestions?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm
Tome:

still like my ,, radio ... for listening only
Avatar 6:42pm
Linda Lee:

ah, ok. thought you were referring to 'saving' our democracy, rather than creating one.
Avatar 6:42pm
geezerette:

LL, precisely, but we need to stay awake and try to roll that boulder uphill.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:42pm
Mark Hurst:

@Jack - thanks & good question. Those are tough. OpenStreetMap is... ok.... for maps, though doesn't have nearly the feature list of GMaps. Translate I'm sorry to say I don't know (yet) of any alternative. Maybe best bet is to use a non-Chrome browser to access it, over a VPN, and then dump cookies afterward.
Avatar 6:43pm
Linda Lee:

i think it would be nice to know what the boulder is & why we're rolling it! :-)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:46pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

We're in for Changes. It's gettin' real. Fast.
Avatar 6:46pm
Linda Lee:

also think it would be nice to have the terms 'left' & "right" properly defined, rather than using the Right's definitions. the party wins who defines the terms of the argument.
Avatar 6:46pm
WaveyDavey:

I love your show Mark. As of last Tuesday my facebook account is officially deleted (whatever that means in facebook terms). I've passed the 28 day 'cooling off period'. FREEDOM!
Avatar 6:47pm
Linda Lee:

how come the cooling off period is the same as one menstrual cycle?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

...or Lunar...
  6:47pm
Jack:

Thanks for your answer Mark. I would never use Chrome, and cookies are just not allowed on my computer.
Avatar 6:48pm
geezerette:

Too complex for comments but the current boulder is fundamentally climate degradation.
Avatar 6:48pm
Linda Lee:

same thing Rev :-D
  6:48pm
Roland from Australia:

Fantastic conversation and interview. Thank you Mark
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:49pm
Michael 98145:

for translators, you could pick your poison : www.bing.com... the MS offering
Avatar 6:49pm
Linda Lee:

ah .. well. in that case, be nice if we weren't trying to roll it while also sitting on it. that's hard.
Avatar 6:50pm
northguineahills:

ack, I couldn't focused on the the interviews, trying to finish work madly *wipes brow*
  6:50pm
seth from muddy creek:

How is this issue different than ethics and legalities in newspaper editorializing?
  6:51pm
Jack:

@Michael98145 - thanks! I'll check it out. I do use Bing maps; they're pretty good. Hmm..Google vs Micro$oft..that's a tough one.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:52pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Facial Recognition was a turning point in *my* head about what was going on...
Avatar 6:52pm
Linda Lee:

& then again, who exactly is 'we'? that's a big one. are 'we' the corporations fouling human life because there is no humam consideration involved? are 'we' the legislative bodies now serving corporate interests in direct opposition to the people? there's another term that needs defining..
Avatar 6:52pm
northguineahills:

@LL: I told my brothers that there are only a handful of American politicians that can actually be considered left of center (ie:Sanders), and they were flabbergasted, especially when I told them Hillary is pretty far right (my bros. are socially liberal conservatives)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:53pm
chris:

different in at least orders of magnitude, seth. millions vs. billions.
Avatar 6:54pm
Linda Lee:

then you always have to define 'left' & 'right' again. is 'left' in relation to domestic policy while also serving the military-industrial complex as Sanders does? what the heck is 'left' in this case?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:54pm
Folsom:

Just get new eyes like minority report
Avatar 6:55pm
Linda Lee:

that ol' national debt clock.. still tickin away after all these years.
Avatar 6:56pm
Linda Lee:

at this point i think 'left' is mainly a creation of the Right to provide othering opportunities for the faithful.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Minority Report became reality years ago...that was fast!...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
Michael 98145:

PK Dick was a prophet
  6:57pm
seth from muddy creek:

Can anything ever be unbiased?
Avatar 6:58pm
northguineahills:

I believe in the classic definition of the political left and right, not the the far right derp squad's definition.
Avatar 6:58pm
Linda Lee:

Burroughs & the concept of the reality studio.. visionary.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
Bas NL:

Thanks Mark!
Avatar 6:59pm
Linda Lee:

personal, direct experience as experienced is unbiased.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
chris:

thanks, Mark and folks.
Avatar 6:59pm
Linda Lee:

thanks for TechTonic, Mark!
always.
  7:00pm
seth from muddy creek:

Great show - again
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
Michael 98145:

thanks again, Mark H
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:01pm
Mark Hurst:

Thanks, everyone! Appreciate your comments & your listening. Have a good week.
Avatar 7:02pm
geezerette:

Edward Bernays, ( not a sauce).
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