WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from December 6, 2021

Listener comments!
	🤖 6:00pm chresti: Hi Mark and techtonoids!
	🤖 6:00pm Handy Haversack: Mark and the Techyon Drives! The kittens are fed, the Techgin is poured, and I am more than ready for a little Techtonic ...
	6:00pm ultradamno: Mark! Techverberators!
	6:01pm TDK60: Hi Mark H. Break it to us.
	🤖 6:01pm Ken From Hyde Park: Good evening, Mark and T'echos!
	6:02pm HyperDose: Pop! Pop! 🎈💥🎈💥
	6:02pm Baja Joe: Greetings Mark.
	6:02pm DanFA: You have meddled with the primordial forces of nature, Mr. Hurst, and you will atone!
	🤖 6:02pm tim from washington: Hey Mark! Hi crew!
	🤖 6:03pm Handy Haversack: HyperDose, same question.
	🤖 6:03pm PaulRobeson1920: The Greatest Radio Station in The Nation & Beyond!! Is right!!!
	6:03pm melinda: hi everyone
	6:04pm DanFA: Station Manager Ken is the Faye Dunaway to Mark's Peter Finch
	🤖 6:04pm DjLorraine: Paper Birches are pictured.
	🤖 6:04pm tim from washington: Don't forget that Station Manager Ken is a Chillionaire.
	6:05pm HyperDose: @handy Same answer! :)
	6:05pm Andres: I like my bad news delivered in Hulk mode/
	6:05pm Juli: My favorite trees!~ I should leave the internet
	6:05pm solo mon: Tech me away, MH!
	🤖 6:06pm Will the Sound Guy: Hi Mark and all!!!
	6:06pm Tom from Stirling: Are paper birch trees also called white birch?
	6:07pm Old Dave: Mark- any specific advice you might share about what we might do when the Civil War breaks out... which nearly half the population of the US is expecting? One guesses they are preparing to make us pay... per Pol Pot. I have books in my house and wear glasses, so we are all doomed to execution (after torture.)
	🤖 6:07pm Will the Sound Guy: you're good Juli, Birch trees are great!
	🤖 6:07pm Bas NL: Hello Mark! Peoples!
	6:08pm melinda: I just signed up with MUBI for streaming movies as an alternative to Netflix, which always keeps me up too late and just feels junky.
	6:08pm morphe': There was an NPR/WNYC piece Sat-Sun??? about a man seeking his missing partner .. He and his western company boss went to the local cops ... According to the westerner on NPR, they tracked her in 7mins via phone/media/facial recognition.. The westerner was struck by the speed but also the lack of legal procedure ..
	6:08pm Juli: YAY I love documentaries. I want to watch
	🤖 6:08pm PaulRobeson1920: @Old Dave G-D forbid!! You underestimate the power of routine in keeping society stable. We will not have a civil war here, and G-D forbid war anywhere!!!!!!! Horrible horrible war
	6:09pm diciassette: Mubi is great!
	🤖 6:09pm Ken From Hyde Park: A veritable forest of future canoes!
	6:10pm HyperDose: This album art is like the other side of the movie poster source photo: fanart.tv...
	6:10pm Mark Hurst: Hi all, thanks for joining this evening!
	6:10pm Glistener MW: evening, all!
	6:10pm morphe': Sorry - that was in China. @6:08 morphe': There was an NPR/WNYC piece Sat-Sun??? about a man seeking his missing partner .. He and his western company boss went to the local cops ... According to the westerner on NPR, they tracked her in 7mins via phone/media/facial recognition.. The westerner was struck by the speed but also the lack of legal procedure ..
	🤖 6:11pm DjLorraine: TomfromStirling according to wiki - yes. And also canoe.
	6:11pm Juli: I joined a group of kids who were against society for many years: I should join it all again Should I avoid the internet? I think this show will say yes
	6:12pm Glistener MW: !!! Rachel Sussman is one of the doc's subjects? Incredible! I highly recommend anyone here check out her ongoing photo/research series "The Oldest Living Things In The World"
	6:13pm Mark Hurst: @GlistenerMW I agree, Rachel is great. I have posted two links to her in the links section on this page: one link to her Oldest Living Things project, and one link to a conference presentation.
	🤖 6:13pm Handy Haversack: Linked to above the playlist, G MW!
	6:13pm Tom from Stirling: DJLorraine: Thanks. Thought so. Those dark markings on the trees look like eyes.
	6:13pm Glistener MW: (ah, I now see it's linked in the Playlist Links on the left! keen!)
	6:13pm solo mon: Love this thought- the power of traditional narrative is just a construct. There is no narrative.
	6:13pm Mark Hurst: @Handy thanks
	6:14pm coelacanth: but- you're talking about real science. most of the "science" the masses hear about is corporate science: scientists paid to demonstrate a specific desired result.
	🤖 6:14pm Handy Haversack: Duplicative effort but meant with care, Mark Hurst!
	6:14pm ultradamno: Speaking of addiction loops...
	6:14pm Listener Robert: I suppose "see the film" has to be understood a little differently in his case.
	6:14pm Mark Hurst: @Handy twice as nice!
	6:16pm melinda: @Robert I thought of that too
	6:19pm Glistener MW: agreed, Coelacanth. I quite enjoyed the 2015 documentary "Sugar Coated", which used the sugar industry (and its respective lobbyists) to look into that exact phenomena -- corporate-controlled science/research groups founded to create the desired soundbites
	6:21pm Glistener MW: I'm perusing photos of Paul Salopek's journey now; just breathtaking.
	🤖 6:22pm tim from washington: Al Arnold's perspective is really interesting. I recent times I've found people putting themselves in extreme environments (ie scaling mountains, "extreme" marathons, etc) for leisure to be quite off-putting. It seems that it just satisfies the ego while putting stress on other people and fucking up the environment. It's helpful to hear Al's perspective.
	6:22pm Juli: Beauty
	6:23pm Juli: I just decided to do something that would make me happy and left my society and began traveling the country to search I like that be quiet and grow slowly vibe
	6:24pm DanFA: You break it, you buy it.
	6:25pm Mark Hurst: @Juli hope your journey goes (or went) well!
	6:25pm Mark Hurst: @DanFA if I have time, I have a news story about Facebook that connects right to that phrase...
	🤖 6:25pm MarciB: So basically the things that we introverts hold dear are the opposite of what our society + big tech are impressed with
	6:26pm Juli: Thanks Mark! I am still on my journey now I suppose huh haha I am writing about it all now <3 Thank you!
	6:26pm melinda: @marciB exactly
	6:26pm Listener Robert: I haven't heard about that underground forest. Anybody got a reference, sounds fascinating.
	6:27pm Marie: Wow, this movie sounds great. Hearing about the runner reminded me of a French man who tried to cross the Pacific by himself by "walking" on the water on inflated things attached to his feet. I think he has tried twice
	6:27pm Tom from Stirling: @Tim from Washington: agree with you. See all those doofs who want to climb Mt. Everest with no climbing experience and wind up dying. And cause the deaths of their guides as well.
	6:27pm LCBD: This is a great interview. So interesting! Thanks Mark!
	6:28pm ultradamno: According to Cosmos, trees caused one of the great extinction event by global warming.
	6:29pm Mark Hurst: @LCBD thanks!
	6:29pm Glistener MW: "For this map the Fuller projection was used to 'straighten' this near circum-global route to better emphasize the sheer length of [Paul's] 21,000 mile walk" -- media.nationalgeographic.org...
	🤖 6:30pm tim from washington: I've got to split but this is fascinating. I'll pick it up in the archives. Thanks a lot, Mark!
	6:30pm Mark Hurst: @GlistenerMW that's a fascinating map, thanks
	6:30pm Mark Hurst: @tim thanks!
	6:30pm coelacanth∅: sitting screws up my skeleton
	6:31pm morphe': Listener Rob - I was out of earshot so not sure if this is pertinent but 2 items about the underground life/rhizomes: Secret Life of Trees = book and an FMU listener told me of Fantastic Fungi = film https://fantasticfungi.com
	🤖 6:31pm Handy Haversack: Seven miles a day very achievable even as a working stiff in NYC.
	6:31pm seedfriend: Rad
	🤖 6:32pm Webhamster Henry: As a pedestrian/biker, I am connected with my environment!
	6:33pm Juli: Outake from the book lol: Once I walked thru my Aunt's backyard alone smoking a joint through a row of birch trees. They were very tall, very white, and thin. They were slowly moving in the wind. As they moved, they sounded like doors opening and closing. It was absolutely beautiful and felt like a silent moment of pure clarity. I should tell IKE to edit my book haha It is like gonna be a picture book mostly tho I think etc Haha anyways it is true that ppl are kind in person
	6:33pm Megaroni: Wow! I saved this article of Paul from NG years ago and still have it! Amazing to hear you’re featuring him
	6:34pm Tom from Stirling: Walking The Appalachian Trail is a fine idea. It's challenging but a good way to connect to the Earth. Just a walk in the woods.
	🤖 6:34pm DjLorraine: 3,2,1 i'm up I remember the feeling the 1st time i saw a bunch of National Geographic magazines.
	6:35pm ultradamno: Speaking of sports and tech www.theonion.com...
	6:35pm Chris J: First year of the pandemic, I ran an average of 7.5 miles a day over 84 days as part of the 635-mile Great Virtual Run Across Tennessee.
	6:36pm Juli: Lovely.
	🤖 6:37pm Webhamster Henry: Kingston is on the Empire State Trail, which at some point I could use to bike to Buffalo or something.
	6:37pm -Ken: Before Civil War breaks out donate all of your money to WFMU.
	6:37pm Glistener MW: That was wonderfully idyllic to read and imagine, Juli. <3 thanks!
	6:37pm iiibeat: At what point or in what "year" did history become "a thing"?
	6:38pm Tom from Stirling: Walking is good. Running is funner. But biking is better.
	6:38pm ARB: Enjoying this angle of alternatives to a tech-focused life, thanks Mark and Steve!
	6:38pm Mark Hurst: @ARB thank you
	6:39pm Listener Robert: Thanks, morphe. I should've known it was about fungi and microbes.
	6:39pm Juli: Ty Glistener! Digging this a lot
	6:40pm coelacanth∅: STEAL IT FROM CRAPPLE SOMEHOW! (Mark wont say it but i will!)
	6:41pm DanFA: I say we all pull our resources to buy a compound in the middle of the desert and move there. No toxic tech allowed. This is totally not the start of a cult.
	🤖 6:41pm Webhamster Henry: Kanopy 👍🏼
	🤖 6:41pm PaulRobeson1920: Ken is right
	6:41pm Spence in Baltimore: Is Rachel Sussman from Maryland?
	🤖 6:41pm MarciB: @DanFA let's go!
	6:42pm P-90: Another choice interview, thanks @Mark!
	6:42pm DanFA: @MarciB, praise be to the one called Mark.
	6:42pm Baja Joe: Very interesting stuff. Will be checking out Steve's film.
	6:43pm ARB: Loved the Bob Ostertag interview!
	🤖 6:44pm chresti: Go slow dirty monkey (was advice from an Egyptian bus driver to a friend of ours)
	6:44pm Dean: My pleasure, Mark. Not coincidentally, Steve introduced me to Bob! A superb interview, Mark.
	6:44pm P-90: Now I want to check out the film, oddly enough
	6:44pm melinda: The first film I watched on MUBI was Herzog's documentary about Bruce Chatwin, who was a long distance walking enthusiast. This film sounds like a nice continuation of that theme.
	6:44pm Juli: Right?!
	6:45pm solo mon: Bob Ostertag is amazing.
	🤖 6:45pm Webhamster Henry: I bought Bob Ostertag's book!
	6:46pm Glistener MW: !!! I haven't heard of that Herzog, Melinda -- will look it up. I'm probably several years behind on his prolific filmography -- the last of his I saw was the stellar "Lo and Behold" about the formation of the internet/digital communication
	6:46pm ARB: I did too!
	6:46pm iiibeat: Tarkovsky in Solaris . . Only shame will save humanity from itself.
	6:46pm Juli: WHAT!
	🤖 6:46pm DjLorraine: Wow!
	6:47pm DanFA: 80,000 years young, to be precise.
	6:47pm coelacanth∅: a lot of trees grow like that...some of the most invasive ones, like the absurdly named "tree of heaven", and wisteria ...
	6:47pm melinda: @Glistener MW I still haven't seen many of his earlier films, either, much to catch up on.
	🤖 6:47pm DjLorraine: Quaking Aspen?
	6:48pm Juli: Oh Beauty Documentary about tree families and growing back our trees: will find and post next week
	🤖 6:48pm Ken From Hyde Park: I guess it's like how Grandpa has used the same hammer his whole life. The handle has been replaced three times and the head twice.
	6:48pm coelacanth∅: ...and the biggest organism on earth, the mycelium in oregon (?- washington?)
	6:49pm Spence in Baltimore: I am 90-ish% sure Rachel and I went to high school together
	🤖 6:49pm MarciB: Omg this is one of my fave quotes from "The Little Prince". Mark, you rule!
	6:49pm Old Dave: Mark I HAVE READ the desert fathers/ mothers years ago and am stunned to hear them mentioned on your great show. I am a certified horticulturist, have been told the largest organism is either an underground fungus or King Alfred daffodil. Either one is okay by me! Thanks
	6:49pm solo mon: Coela, it’s in southern Oregon.
	6:50pm coelacanth∅: Thanks solo ...hi solo!
	6:50pm DanFA: Make them pay! Make them pay!
	6:50pm solo mon: Hi!!!
	🤖 6:51pm Ken From Hyde Park: Let's hope some tech billionaire never buys the aspen's land for his/her personal playground/mansion.
	6:51pm Glistener MW: Tree podcast "Completely Arbortrary" recently did an episode on the pictured Pando organism / Quaking Aspen! -- arbortrarypod.com...
	6:52pm DanFA: @ Glistener MW: Stuff You Should Know also did a podcast on pando.
	6:52pm P-90: Thanks for the link @Glistener MW
	6:52pm coelacanth∅: Ken, or the us government sells it (it -OUR land...) to a mining company, or such
	6:53pm shiloh in spirit: @Ken from HP: It's probably more realistic that they force them out of it instead than buy it
	6:53pm Blobs: Still holding out hope that one day Mark will see that Bitcoin - not crypto - is anti-big tech establishment, anti-panopticon, anti-censorship, pro-humanity technology. I am not a Tech Bro!
	6:53pm LCBD: I give you thanks, Mark, for helping me finally leave Instagram a few months ago. When friends ask me why, I bring up the FB/Rohingya story.
	6:54pm Juli: Here here
	🤖 6:54pm MarciB: Shut it down! Shut it down! Shut it down! (we are chanting that at home right now)
	6:54pm ultradamno: "This is going to be fun" (from the ad for Meta) is the greatest example of false advertising in history
	6:55pm Juli: Good idea to leave.
	🤖 6:55pm MarciB: @ultradamno - yes indeed!
	6:55pm DanFA: That's gonna be a lot of salt
	🤖 6:55pm PaulRobeson1920: How is IBM and Mercedes-Benz doing nowadays?
	🤖 6:56pm DjLorraine: I believe is was 2013 i met Myanmar protestors at the capitol. I felt helpless. I didn't know much about it. I couldn't help.
	6:56pm Juli: Yes, of course they did nothing, they don't care about human life. The opposite.
	6:56pm coelacanth∅: i trolled facadebook a few years ago, by blatantly violating policy, assuming they'd delete my account but it didn't happen
	🤖 6:56pm Handy Haversack: And more -- if you work for a company that uses Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc., never pass up a chance to demand that you start making ethical rather than expedient choices as a company. Esp. if it's a nonprofit or university or other org. that tells itself it does good in the world. Always be vocal in stating that ethics should be a component in the platforms you support through use. It will NOT make you popular at work. But still. Do it. And in your community orgs. and volunteer jobs. And I guess churches?
	6:57pm listener 126464: Thanks Mark and guest.
	6:57pm Stillwell Coney Islander: Thank you Mark for all you do!
	6:58pm DanFA: Ken is the Micky to Mark's Rocky, rooting him to go Full Beale
	🤖 6:58pm PaulRobeson1920: Thank You Mark!!!! Wow of a show. Keep tellin the truth!!!!
	6:58pm coelacanth∅: Handy my sister works for habitat for humanity...i have to ask her about that
	6:58pm Glistener MW: Great show, and comments. Thanks, Mark & all! <3
	6:58pm Old Dave: But Mark- well we love you!
	6:58pm ARB: Great outro!!!
	🤖 6:58pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark!
	6:59pm LCBD: Handy, yes! Add libraries to that list :/
	6:59pm coelacanth∅: Thanks Mark! Thanks Steve Elkins!
	6:59pm DanFA: I quit life, and now I am dead. Netflix and chill.
	🤖 7:00pm Webhamster Henry: I'm using Open Maps instead of Google Maps whenever I can on websites
	🤖 7:00pm Ken From Hyde Park: Thanks, Mark.
	🤖 7:00pm chresti: Thanks Mark!
	7:00pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone, great comments this evening! See you next week.
	🤖 7:01pm Will the Sound Guy: Thank you Mark!!!
	🤖 7:02pm Handy Haversack: Thanks, Mark! Great show today.
	12:43pm Quinn: Just want to point out that docplus.com is a very easy way to watch this documentary. no sign up, just a little bit of ads.

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from December 6, 2021

View Mark Hurst's profile

Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

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Upcoming events:

Mon. Dec 30th, 6pm - 7pm: Andrew Smith, author, "Devil in the Stack" (More info...)
Writer Andrew Smith decided to learn computer programming in his 50s. What happened next is captured in his book "Devil in the Stack: A Code Odyssey," and wide-ranging tour through computer history, neuroscience, and the friendliest programming language.

December 6, 2021: Steve Elkins, director, "Echoes of the Invisible"

Listen to this show: Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Tonight: Steve Elkins, director, "Echoes of the Invisible"

Links:

• Echoes of the Invisible on Steve's site, steveelkins.net

• On Making “Echoes of the Invisible”: several interviews with Steve on the making-of

• Kanopy page for "Echoes of the Invisible"

• Apple TV page for "Echoes of the Invisible"

• DocPlus page for “Echoes of the Invisible”

• Altavod page for “Echoes of the Invisible”

• Recent post from Paul Salopek, now in southwestern China on his walk across the world

• Rachel Sussman's Oldest Living Things in the World project, taking photos of living things at least 2,000 years old.

• See also Rachel's presentation at Mark's Gel 2010 conference.

• Speaking of walking-scale experiences: read Chris Arnade's walking trip across Orlando

Some news, if we have time

• The Popular Family Safety App Life360 Is Selling Precise Location Data on Its Tens of Millions of Users (by Jon Keegan and Alfred Ng, The Markup, Dec 6, 2021): “The app is a major source of raw location data for a multibillion-dollar industry that buys, packages, and sells people’s movements. . . . Life360, a popular family safety app used by 33 million people worldwide, has been marketed as a great way for parents to track their children’s movements using their cellphones. The Markup has learned, however, that the app is selling data on kids’ and families’ whereabouts to approximately a dozen data brokers who have sold data to virtually anyone who wants to buy it. ”

• After Jane McGonigal sent her Pixel 5a to Google for repair, someone allegedly took and hacked her device (Emma Roth in The Verge, Dec 4, 2021). See also Jane's original thread: "Yeah, don't send your Google phone in for warranty repair/replacement. As has happened with others, last night someone used it to log into my gmail, Drive, photos backup email account, dropbox, and I can see from activity logs they opened a bunch of selfies hoping to find nudes."

• Rohingya sue Facebook for £150bn over Myanmar genocide (by Dan Milmo in The Guardian, Dec 6, 2021): “A class action complaint lodged with the northern district court in San Francisco says Facebook was ‘willing to trade the lives of the Rohingya people for better market penetration in a small country in south-east Asia.’”

• Sign up to get Mark's weekly email newsletter. You can also join Mark's Creative Good community.

PAST EPISODES: techtonic.fm lists recent Techtonic shows.

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist	Track	Comments	Approx. start time
Tomaš Dvořák	Game Boy Tune "Game Boy Tune" by "Tomaš Dvořák"		0:00:00 (Pop-up)
	Mark's intro "Mark's intro"
	Interview with Steve Elkins "Interview with Steve Elkins"		0:06:10 (Pop-up)
	Mark's comments "Mark's comments"		0:38:03 (Pop-up)
Matmos	Platformalism (ARANXTA YAROS REMIX)	https://arantxayaros.bandcamp.com/track/matmos-platformalism-aranxta-yaros-remix	0:55:23 (Pop-up)

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Listener comments!
	🤖 6:00pm chresti: Hi Mark and techtonoids!
	🤖 6:00pm Handy Haversack: Mark and the Techyon Drives! The kittens are fed, the Techgin is poured, and I am more than ready for a little Techtonic ...
	6:00pm ultradamno: Mark! Techverberators!
	6:01pm TDK60: Hi Mark H. Break it to us.
	🤖 6:01pm Ken From Hyde Park: Good evening, Mark and T'echos!
	6:02pm HyperDose: Pop! Pop! 🎈💥🎈💥
	6:02pm Baja Joe: Greetings Mark.
	6:02pm DanFA: You have meddled with the primordial forces of nature, Mr. Hurst, and you will atone!
	🤖 6:02pm tim from washington: Hey Mark! Hi crew!
	🤖 6:03pm Handy Haversack: HyperDose, same question.
	🤖 6:03pm PaulRobeson1920: The Greatest Radio Station in The Nation & Beyond!! Is right!!!
	6:03pm melinda: hi everyone
	6:04pm DanFA: Station Manager Ken is the Faye Dunaway to Mark's Peter Finch
	🤖 6:04pm DjLorraine: Paper Birches are pictured.
	🤖 6:04pm tim from washington: Don't forget that Station Manager Ken is a Chillionaire.
	6:05pm HyperDose: @handy Same answer! :)
	6:05pm Andres: I like my bad news delivered in Hulk mode/
	6:05pm Juli: My favorite trees!~ I should leave the internet
	6:05pm solo mon: Tech me away, MH!
	🤖 6:06pm Will the Sound Guy: Hi Mark and all!!!
	6:06pm Tom from Stirling: Are paper birch trees also called white birch?
	6:07pm Old Dave: Mark- any specific advice you might share about what we might do when the Civil War breaks out... which nearly half the population of the US is expecting? One guesses they are preparing to make us pay... per Pol Pot. I have books in my house and wear glasses, so we are all doomed to execution (after torture.)
	🤖 6:07pm Will the Sound Guy: you're good Juli, Birch trees are great!
	🤖 6:07pm Bas NL: Hello Mark! Peoples!
	6:08pm melinda: I just signed up with MUBI for streaming movies as an alternative to Netflix, which always keeps me up too late and just feels junky.
	6:08pm morphe': There was an NPR/WNYC piece Sat-Sun??? about a man seeking his missing partner .. He and his western company boss went to the local cops ... According to the westerner on NPR, they tracked her in 7mins via phone/media/facial recognition.. The westerner was struck by the speed but also the lack of legal procedure ..
	6:08pm Juli: YAY I love documentaries. I want to watch
	🤖 6:08pm PaulRobeson1920: @Old Dave G-D forbid!! You underestimate the power of routine in keeping society stable. We will not have a civil war here, and G-D forbid war anywhere!!!!!!! Horrible horrible war
	6:09pm diciassette: Mubi is great!
	🤖 6:09pm Ken From Hyde Park: A veritable forest of future canoes!
	6:10pm HyperDose: This album art is like the other side of the movie poster source photo: fanart.tv...
	6:10pm Mark Hurst: Hi all, thanks for joining this evening!
	6:10pm Glistener MW: evening, all!
	6:10pm morphe': Sorry - that was in China. @6:08 morphe': There was an NPR/WNYC piece Sat-Sun??? about a man seeking his missing partner .. He and his western company boss went to the local cops ... According to the westerner on NPR, they tracked her in 7mins via phone/media/facial recognition.. The westerner was struck by the speed but also the lack of legal procedure ..
	🤖 6:11pm DjLorraine: TomfromStirling according to wiki - yes. And also canoe.
	6:11pm Juli: I joined a group of kids who were against society for many years: I should join it all again Should I avoid the internet? I think this show will say yes
	6:12pm Glistener MW: !!! Rachel Sussman is one of the doc's subjects? Incredible! I highly recommend anyone here check out her ongoing photo/research series "The Oldest Living Things In The World"
	6:13pm Mark Hurst: @GlistenerMW I agree, Rachel is great. I have posted two links to her in the links section on this page: one link to her Oldest Living Things project, and one link to a conference presentation.
	🤖 6:13pm Handy Haversack: Linked to above the playlist, G MW!
	6:13pm Tom from Stirling: DJLorraine: Thanks. Thought so. Those dark markings on the trees look like eyes.
	6:13pm Glistener MW: (ah, I now see it's linked in the Playlist Links on the left! keen!)
	6:13pm solo mon: Love this thought- the power of traditional narrative is just a construct. There is no narrative.
	6:13pm Mark Hurst: @Handy thanks
	6:14pm coelacanth: but- you're talking about real science. most of the "science" the masses hear about is corporate science: scientists paid to demonstrate a specific desired result.
	🤖 6:14pm Handy Haversack: Duplicative effort but meant with care, Mark Hurst!
	6:14pm ultradamno: Speaking of addiction loops...
	6:14pm Listener Robert: I suppose "see the film" has to be understood a little differently in his case.
	6:14pm Mark Hurst: @Handy twice as nice!
	6:16pm melinda: @Robert I thought of that too
	6:19pm Glistener MW: agreed, Coelacanth. I quite enjoyed the 2015 documentary "Sugar Coated", which used the sugar industry (and its respective lobbyists) to look into that exact phenomena -- corporate-controlled science/research groups founded to create the desired soundbites
	6:21pm Glistener MW: I'm perusing photos of Paul Salopek's journey now; just breathtaking.
	🤖 6:22pm tim from washington: Al Arnold's perspective is really interesting. I recent times I've found people putting themselves in extreme environments (ie scaling mountains, "extreme" marathons, etc) for leisure to be quite off-putting. It seems that it just satisfies the ego while putting stress on other people and fucking up the environment. It's helpful to hear Al's perspective.
	6:22pm Juli: Beauty
	6:23pm Juli: I just decided to do something that would make me happy and left my society and began traveling the country to search I like that be quiet and grow slowly vibe
	6:24pm DanFA: You break it, you buy it.
	6:25pm Mark Hurst: @Juli hope your journey goes (or went) well!
	6:25pm Mark Hurst: @DanFA if I have time, I have a news story about Facebook that connects right to that phrase...
	🤖 6:25pm MarciB: So basically the things that we introverts hold dear are the opposite of what our society + big tech are impressed with
	6:26pm Juli: Thanks Mark! I am still on my journey now I suppose huh haha I am writing about it all now <3 Thank you!
	6:26pm melinda: @marciB exactly
	6:26pm Listener Robert: I haven't heard about that underground forest. Anybody got a reference, sounds fascinating.
	6:27pm Marie: Wow, this movie sounds great. Hearing about the runner reminded me of a French man who tried to cross the Pacific by himself by "walking" on the water on inflated things attached to his feet. I think he has tried twice
	6:27pm Tom from Stirling: @Tim from Washington: agree with you. See all those doofs who want to climb Mt. Everest with no climbing experience and wind up dying. And cause the deaths of their guides as well.
	6:27pm LCBD: This is a great interview. So interesting! Thanks Mark!
	6:28pm ultradamno: According to Cosmos, trees caused one of the great extinction event by global warming.
	6:29pm Mark Hurst: @LCBD thanks!
	6:29pm Glistener MW: "For this map the Fuller projection was used to 'straighten' this near circum-global route to better emphasize the sheer length of [Paul's] 21,000 mile walk" -- media.nationalgeographic.org...
	🤖 6:30pm tim from washington: I've got to split but this is fascinating. I'll pick it up in the archives. Thanks a lot, Mark!
	6:30pm Mark Hurst: @GlistenerMW that's a fascinating map, thanks
	6:30pm Mark Hurst: @tim thanks!
	6:30pm coelacanth∅: sitting screws up my skeleton
	6:31pm morphe': Listener Rob - I was out of earshot so not sure if this is pertinent but 2 items about the underground life/rhizomes: Secret Life of Trees = book and an FMU listener told me of Fantastic Fungi = film https://fantasticfungi.com
	🤖 6:31pm Handy Haversack: Seven miles a day very achievable even as a working stiff in NYC.
	6:31pm seedfriend: Rad
	🤖 6:32pm Webhamster Henry: As a pedestrian/biker, I am connected with my environment!
	6:33pm Juli: Outake from the book lol: Once I walked thru my Aunt's backyard alone smoking a joint through a row of birch trees. They were very tall, very white, and thin. They were slowly moving in the wind. As they moved, they sounded like doors opening and closing. It was absolutely beautiful and felt like a silent moment of pure clarity. I should tell IKE to edit my book haha It is like gonna be a picture book mostly tho I think etc Haha anyways it is true that ppl are kind in person
	6:33pm Megaroni: Wow! I saved this article of Paul from NG years ago and still have it! Amazing to hear you’re featuring him
	6:34pm Tom from Stirling: Walking The Appalachian Trail is a fine idea. It's challenging but a good way to connect to the Earth. Just a walk in the woods.
	🤖 6:34pm DjLorraine: 3,2,1 i'm up I remember the feeling the 1st time i saw a bunch of National Geographic magazines.
	6:35pm ultradamno: Speaking of sports and tech www.theonion.com...
	6:35pm Chris J: First year of the pandemic, I ran an average of 7.5 miles a day over 84 days as part of the 635-mile Great Virtual Run Across Tennessee.
	6:36pm Juli: Lovely.
	🤖 6:37pm Webhamster Henry: Kingston is on the Empire State Trail, which at some point I could use to bike to Buffalo or something.
	6:37pm -Ken: Before Civil War breaks out donate all of your money to WFMU.
	6:37pm Glistener MW: That was wonderfully idyllic to read and imagine, Juli. <3 thanks!
	6:37pm iiibeat: At what point or in what "year" did history become "a thing"?
	6:38pm Tom from Stirling: Walking is good. Running is funner. But biking is better.
	6:38pm ARB: Enjoying this angle of alternatives to a tech-focused life, thanks Mark and Steve!
	6:38pm Mark Hurst: @ARB thank you
	6:39pm Listener Robert: Thanks, morphe. I should've known it was about fungi and microbes.
	6:39pm Juli: Ty Glistener! Digging this a lot
	6:40pm coelacanth∅: STEAL IT FROM CRAPPLE SOMEHOW! (Mark wont say it but i will!)
	6:41pm DanFA: I say we all pull our resources to buy a compound in the middle of the desert and move there. No toxic tech allowed. This is totally not the start of a cult.
	🤖 6:41pm Webhamster Henry: Kanopy 👍🏼
	🤖 6:41pm PaulRobeson1920: Ken is right
	6:41pm Spence in Baltimore: Is Rachel Sussman from Maryland?
	🤖 6:41pm MarciB: @DanFA let's go!
	6:42pm P-90: Another choice interview, thanks @Mark!
	6:42pm DanFA: @MarciB, praise be to the one called Mark.
	6:42pm Baja Joe: Very interesting stuff. Will be checking out Steve's film.
	6:43pm ARB: Loved the Bob Ostertag interview!
	🤖 6:44pm chresti: Go slow dirty monkey (was advice from an Egyptian bus driver to a friend of ours)
	6:44pm Dean: My pleasure, Mark. Not coincidentally, Steve introduced me to Bob! A superb interview, Mark.
	6:44pm P-90: Now I want to check out the film, oddly enough
	6:44pm melinda: The first film I watched on MUBI was Herzog's documentary about Bruce Chatwin, who was a long distance walking enthusiast. This film sounds like a nice continuation of that theme.
	6:44pm Juli: Right?!
	6:45pm solo mon: Bob Ostertag is amazing.
	🤖 6:45pm Webhamster Henry: I bought Bob Ostertag's book!
	6:46pm Glistener MW: !!! I haven't heard of that Herzog, Melinda -- will look it up. I'm probably several years behind on his prolific filmography -- the last of his I saw was the stellar "Lo and Behold" about the formation of the internet/digital communication
	6:46pm ARB: I did too!
	6:46pm iiibeat: Tarkovsky in Solaris . . Only shame will save humanity from itself.
	6:46pm Juli: WHAT!
	🤖 6:46pm DjLorraine: Wow!
	6:47pm DanFA: 80,000 years young, to be precise.
	6:47pm coelacanth∅: a lot of trees grow like that...some of the most invasive ones, like the absurdly named "tree of heaven", and wisteria ...
	6:47pm melinda: @Glistener MW I still haven't seen many of his earlier films, either, much to catch up on.
	🤖 6:47pm DjLorraine: Quaking Aspen?
	6:48pm Juli: Oh Beauty Documentary about tree families and growing back our trees: will find and post next week
	🤖 6:48pm Ken From Hyde Park: I guess it's like how Grandpa has used the same hammer his whole life. The handle has been replaced three times and the head twice.
	6:48pm coelacanth∅: ...and the biggest organism on earth, the mycelium in oregon (?- washington?)
	6:49pm Spence in Baltimore: I am 90-ish% sure Rachel and I went to high school together
	🤖 6:49pm MarciB: Omg this is one of my fave quotes from "The Little Prince". Mark, you rule!
	6:49pm Old Dave: Mark I HAVE READ the desert fathers/ mothers years ago and am stunned to hear them mentioned on your great show. I am a certified horticulturist, have been told the largest organism is either an underground fungus or King Alfred daffodil. Either one is okay by me! Thanks
	6:49pm solo mon: Coela, it’s in southern Oregon.
	6:50pm coelacanth∅: Thanks solo ...hi solo!
	6:50pm DanFA: Make them pay! Make them pay!
	6:50pm solo mon: Hi!!!
	🤖 6:51pm Ken From Hyde Park: Let's hope some tech billionaire never buys the aspen's land for his/her personal playground/mansion.
	6:51pm Glistener MW: Tree podcast "Completely Arbortrary" recently did an episode on the pictured Pando organism / Quaking Aspen! -- arbortrarypod.com...
	6:52pm DanFA: @ Glistener MW: Stuff You Should Know also did a podcast on pando.
	6:52pm P-90: Thanks for the link @Glistener MW
	6:52pm coelacanth∅: Ken, or the us government sells it (it -OUR land...) to a mining company, or such
	6:53pm shiloh in spirit: @Ken from HP: It's probably more realistic that they force them out of it instead than buy it
	6:53pm Blobs: Still holding out hope that one day Mark will see that Bitcoin - not crypto - is anti-big tech establishment, anti-panopticon, anti-censorship, pro-humanity technology. I am not a Tech Bro!
	6:53pm LCBD: I give you thanks, Mark, for helping me finally leave Instagram a few months ago. When friends ask me why, I bring up the FB/Rohingya story.
	6:54pm Juli: Here here
	🤖 6:54pm MarciB: Shut it down! Shut it down! Shut it down! (we are chanting that at home right now)
	6:54pm ultradamno: "This is going to be fun" (from the ad for Meta) is the greatest example of false advertising in history
	6:55pm Juli: Good idea to leave.
	🤖 6:55pm MarciB: @ultradamno - yes indeed!
	6:55pm DanFA: That's gonna be a lot of salt
	🤖 6:55pm PaulRobeson1920: How is IBM and Mercedes-Benz doing nowadays?
	🤖 6:56pm DjLorraine: I believe is was 2013 i met Myanmar protestors at the capitol. I felt helpless. I didn't know much about it. I couldn't help.
	6:56pm Juli: Yes, of course they did nothing, they don't care about human life. The opposite.
	6:56pm coelacanth∅: i trolled facadebook a few years ago, by blatantly violating policy, assuming they'd delete my account but it didn't happen
	🤖 6:56pm Handy Haversack: And more -- if you work for a company that uses Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc., never pass up a chance to demand that you start making ethical rather than expedient choices as a company. Esp. if it's a nonprofit or university or other org. that tells itself it does good in the world. Always be vocal in stating that ethics should be a component in the platforms you support through use. It will NOT make you popular at work. But still. Do it. And in your community orgs. and volunteer jobs. And I guess churches?
	6:57pm listener 126464: Thanks Mark and guest.
	6:57pm Stillwell Coney Islander: Thank you Mark for all you do!
	6:58pm DanFA: Ken is the Micky to Mark's Rocky, rooting him to go Full Beale
	🤖 6:58pm PaulRobeson1920: Thank You Mark!!!! Wow of a show. Keep tellin the truth!!!!
	6:58pm coelacanth∅: Handy my sister works for habitat for humanity...i have to ask her about that
	6:58pm Glistener MW: Great show, and comments. Thanks, Mark & all! <3
	6:58pm Old Dave: But Mark- well we love you!
	6:58pm ARB: Great outro!!!
	🤖 6:58pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark!
	6:59pm LCBD: Handy, yes! Add libraries to that list :/
	6:59pm coelacanth∅: Thanks Mark! Thanks Steve Elkins!
	6:59pm DanFA: I quit life, and now I am dead. Netflix and chill.
	🤖 7:00pm Webhamster Henry: I'm using Open Maps instead of Google Maps whenever I can on websites
	🤖 7:00pm Ken From Hyde Park: Thanks, Mark.
	🤖 7:00pm chresti: Thanks Mark!
	7:00pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone, great comments this evening! See you next week.
	🤖 7:01pm Will the Sound Guy: Thank you Mark!!!
	🤖 7:02pm Handy Haversack: Thanks, Mark! Great show today.
	12:43pm Quinn: Just want to point out that docplus.com is a very easy way to watch this documentary. no sign up, just a little bit of ads.

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from December 6, 2021

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