WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from May 9, 2022

Listener comments!
	6:00pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtonotarists!
	6:00pm David in London: Evening Mark and all Technoids.
	6:00pm listener james from westwood: Evening, Mark and all!
	🤖 6:00pm Will the Sound Guy: Hi Mark and all, Bluetooth and mowing the yard!
	6:03pm melinda: hello techtines
	6:03pm chris in the redwoods: hi, Mark. hi, technicians.
	6:03pm DanFA: Will we be getting a crossover with Music of Mind Control?
	6:03pm DanFA: So goes Silicon Valley, so goes the country.
	🤖 6:04pm tim from washington: Hi Mark and everyone! Mark - Your show in overlapping with Music For Mind Control more frequently.
	🤖 6:04pm PaulRobeson1922: Good evening WFMU Land!
	6:04pm Neels: @DanFA ooo that would be something
	6:04pm Franco Twinkie: Work and religion - two things I only have a hazy concept of.
	6:05pm DanFA: @tim from Washington- great minds think alike. See my comment above yours
	6:05pm Rolando: Greetings
	🤖 6:06pm tim from washington: DanFA - !!!!!
	🤖 6:06pm MarciB: Oh boy - I'm bracing myself for this one!
	6:06pm DanFA: F**k it! We'll do it live!
	6:07pm David in London: To quote the great John Steed, “I tried work once. It didn’t work out. Too much like hard work.”
	6:07pm melinda: @DanFA haha
	6:07pm castor: Hi Mark and everyone, sounds like a fascinating topic!
	🤖 6:07pm Webhamster Henry: This should be fun! I've always wanted to write something called the Word Made Silicon, about how people will believe things they read on the computer as if they were as infallible as a Biblical Truth.
	🤖 6:08pm Webhamster Henry: That goes with the "Pray" part of tonight's theme.
	6:08pm Mark Hurst: Hi all, thanks for joining! @ultra @james @willTSG @melinda @chris @danfa @timWA @paulR @Neels @FrancoT @DanFA @Marci @DiL @melinda @castor @webham !
	6:09pm JR: Is it ok to surrender to WFMU?
	6:09pm Rolando: The government would love us to worship them to
	🤖 6:10pm PaulRobeson1922: Neil Postman called it!! The promotion of one Deity, even a technological one, requires the trivialization of all others Durkheim, yes. I love you
	6:11pm castor: it makes sense to discourage other's religion if you want them to worship in a way that empowers the new leaders
	🤖 6:11pm Webhamster Henry: @DiL Avengers, Dissemble!
	6:11pm Little Danny: hi mark hi all!
	🤖 6:11pm tim from washington: I'm not all that into David Foster Wallace either.
	🤖 6:13pm PaulRobeson1922: Carolyn Chen’s "Work Pray Code: When Work Becomes Religion in Silicon Valley” I’m going to buy the book 100%
	6:14pm Jackie G: work.....WORK?! Pray.....PRAY!? Police....POLICE!? - Maynard G Krebs
	6:14pm castor: I've been taking a class on the hellenization and christianization of ancient Egypt and it's the same exact story
	6:14pm timinoak: For the money. For the success. It's a choice. It's built into the tech culture. I've seen this with military officers as well.
	6:15pm Franco Twinkie: David Foster Wallace wrote razor sharp observational journalism - meta fiction? not so sure. His sense of fictional invention was without a soul. But It was funny....sometimes.
	🤖 6:15pm Webhamster Henry: Hey, Eastman Kodak had its own calendar, that's a good sign that a religion is nearby.
	6:15pm (Murakami Whywolf))): I considered going from evangelical Christianity to most technology firms' faiths to be an improvement. For one thing, their usual proposition, 'We will succeed and you will be rich.', is subjectable to reality-testing.
	6:16pm Jackie G: David Foster Walace was a good writer. But he was too smart for his own good.
	🤖 6:16pm DjLorraine: Interesting topic. Time and attention, yes.
	6:16pm Franco Twinkie: Well put Jake.
	🤖 6:18pm Webhamster Henry: We old people don't last long in tech these days....
	🤖 6:18pm MarciB: The transference of loyalty from church to work sounds like what happens to many addicts - they give up their main vice then pick up a new, usually less harmful, one. This is not to say religious folks are addicts (or vice versa), just noting the similarities. I've seen so many friends go thru this very scenario.
	6:19pm melinda: I have a hard time imagining any job or company that would inspire that kind of devotion from me.
	6:19pm Rolando: I have seen all of us in the workplace in the UK where I spent a lot of time and also here in Australia this is the truth. As Bob Dylan says you’ve gotta serve somebody, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord but you’re gonna have to serve somebody
	6:19pm (((Murakami Whywolf): Technology companies often get a lot of their devotion because they give their coders the opportunity to feel a craftperson's mastery of their techniques and materials…and in many cases to live better than most of the people with whom they grew-up.
	🤖 6:20pm DjLorraine: Franco Twinkie you have lovely fresh nutrient dense pictures
	🤖 6:20pm MarciB: I'm glad I'm self-employed! (and I take a lot of breaks)
	🤖 6:22pm Webhamster Henry: For a really good satire on this theme, check out Severance on Apple TV.
	6:22pm ultradamno: I can't be self employed. I hate the management too much.
	6:22pm Rolando: Over 10 years ago I read or heard that it’s the middle managers who are burning out, and of course the bottom feeders who are always disposable apparently. All the care is given to the king bees and queen bees at the top.
	🤖 6:22pm Folsom: I remember watching the Apollo documentary series "Moon Machines", those guys working on the LEM computer ended up divorced since they were working long hours.
	6:22pm Mark Hurst: @Webham good point - I've been hearing good things about Severance.
	🤖 6:23pm tim from washington: Thanks, Mark. This interview is fascinating. I've got to split early but I will dig into it again in the archives. Thanks again, Mark and Carolyn!
	6:23pm DanFA: @Mark, did you hear about the Uber engineer who a couple of years ago wanted to create a church of artificial intelligence?www.wired.com...
	6:25pm DanFA: www.wired.com...
	🤖 6:25pm chresti: WFMU is my religion. Where might I find the ping-pong table?
	6:25pm chris in the redwoods: agreed about Severance, its a very intelligence and compelling commentary.
	6:26pm DanFA: @Chresti, the ping pong table is within you. It is merely a symbol of WFMU's everlasting love.
	6:26pm Mark Hurst: @DanFA oh yes, Anthony Levandowski - who's come up a couple of times (briefly) on past episodes. His "church of the AI" was an interesting idea until he got convicted of, I think it was, criminal charges. Later enjoyed a presidential pardon.
	🤖 6:26pm PaulRobeson1922: Trust in the Ultimate
	6:26pm DanFA: @Mark of course he did.
	6:26pm Carmichael: Because of Jobs, he became a buddhist.
	6:27pm DanFA: Station Manager Ken, if you're listening, can WFMU form its own religion?
	🤖 6:27pm MarciB: @Chresti - that's one religion I can get behind. Oh wait, I'm all in!
	6:28pm castor: Siliconism is to Buddhism what Christianity is to Judaism...???
	6:28pm Franco Twinkie: Yesterday morning I was at the farmers market. Buddhist monks from the local temple walked thru barefoot in a procession, blessing the food and farmers who grow it. That is a application of religion I can get behind. Blessing machines - BAH!
	🤖 6:28pm PaulRobeson1922: I trust WFMU. Team trust
	🤖 6:29pm Webhamster Henry: @Crmichael little did they know, he was wearing alien possessed turtlenecks.
	🤖 6:29pm MarciB: @Franco - that's a beautiful ritual, how wonderful.
	6:29pm (((Murakami Whywolf): U.S. Americans already worship work—the strongest criticism one can make of someone's unpopular opinion is 'Youʼve never had a _real_ job, have you?' and we don't take most of even the pease-poor vacation hours we're given. As far as I know, technology industry people at coder level or above at least are getting a better deal than most of the rest of us.
	6:29pm Carmichael: He and Stephanopalous, Henry.
	6:30pm Dean: I recall a mid-'90s upward trend of interest in Buddhism, specifically Jewish Buddhism, thanks to Kamenetz's The Jew in the Lotus.
	6:30pm Little Danny: really excellent contextualization of present day tech culture in the history of American counterculture and its relationship to Eastern practices
	6:30pm DanFA: I think the Peter Thiel analog on the show Silicon Valley had a spiritual adviser who was really a fake mystic.
	🤖 6:30pm Webhamster Henry: @Franco I actually drew "St. Mary Of The Micro" , a patron saint to keep out 8008 based homemade computer from crashing back in 1978.
	🤖 6:30pm DjLorraine: Chresti would a satellite office tennis court do? ; )
	6:30pm Fredericks: MarciB: Once I was messed up on drugs; now I'm messed up on the Lord.
	6:31pm Wild Neil\|\|Peace All: He left out generation X.
	6:31pm Carmichael: I'm about to sell back 480 hours of vacation to The Man when I retire. Their turn to suck it.
	6:31pm castor: Stoicism is also really big there, both that and Buddhism encourage passivity and self transformation over social transformation
	6:32pm DanFA: Hahahahahhahahhhahhahha
	6:32pm (Murakami Whywolf))): Zen can be a fine discipline, but from the samurai all the way to the Nazi Eugen Herrigel it has been used as an excuse for heartlessness.
	6:32pm Rolando: Do you remember when we used to laugh at the Chinese assembling early in the morning for huge spiritual workouts or physical exercise at the start of the working day,
	6:32pm timinoak: So now layer this in with working from home. Imagine the erasure of work boundaries. But this is personal choice. BTW, the bay area is insanely expensive. I feel for the non techs..
	6:32pm ultradamno: @wn everyone does, it's the appeal
	🤖 6:32pm chresti: DJ Lorraine, yes, if there are ping pong tables
	6:32pm melinda: it had to end up in a hot tub at Esalen
	6:33pm Carmichael: Everything ends up in a hot tub is Esalen ...
	6:34pm DanFA: @Mark isn't DJ Arb WFMU's spiritual adviser? Fascinating show, great interview.
	6:34pm WR: I've been in one of the hot tubs at Esalen. It wasn't so hot.
	🤖 6:34pm PaulRobeson1922: 13th Floor Elevators “Trust in the Ultimate…” Hip Pies exist in relation to WWII & The Vietnam War (1954-1975) & Jim Crow America- the Horror and madness cannot be put into words lightly
	🤖 6:35pm Webhamster Henry: @DanFA DJ ARB and Micah.
	6:35pm Carmichael: My spiritual advisors are Beavis & Butthead.
	🤖 6:35pm DjLorraine: Didn't one budha have a wife and offspring waiting for him to help them?
	6:36pm Franco Twinkie: When I got in those tubs at Esalen, it was all stoners and hedonists. Believe me, no one was talking about work.
	6:36pm castor: i never thought i would hear the phrase "colonize the hot tub"
	🤖 6:36pm Webhamster Henry: So is Surveillance excused by Omniscience?
	6:36pm Mark Hurst: @Webham heh.. ask the Omniscience
	6:37pm WR: How many decades ago Franco?
	6:37pm Jackie G: Gray blue is a shade similar to slate.
	6:37pm Wild Neil\|\|Peace All: I think its weird having ping pong tables and gourmet food at work, it means you are spending WAY too much time there. Family is WAY more important.
	6:37pm timinoak: It is their choice. It's lavish benefits. Barrels of money..
	6:37pm Carmichael: Sounds like when I worked at Intel. I refused to drink the Koolaid.
	🤖 6:37pm Bas NL: I'm late! Hi all!
	🤖 6:37pm Webhamster Henry: @Mark The 8-ball says: reply hazy, try again.
	🤖 6:37pm chresti: They groom the workers like racehorses.
	🤖 6:38pm Ken From Hyde Park: Hello, Mark and techtotheorists. Go to work to make money. Go to church to give money. Circle of life and all that.
	6:38pm Mark Hurst: @Bas welcome!
	🤖 6:38pm Webhamster Henry: I never played any of those ping-pong/fußball games. When did anyone have the time?
	6:38pm Mark Hurst: @KenfHP sounds reasonable
	6:39pm Jackie G: Buddhas have such big bellies because their physical energy center is so strong.
	6:39pm Franco Twinkie: WR, 1976. We drove down from Santa Cruz in the middle night. Got stoned - got boiled.
	6:40pm WR: Hey, that was about when I visited my friend out there.
	6:40pm dale: employers try to brainwash us constantly. stay aware, stay independent.
	6:40pm yippie: that greek vase painting of sisyphus on the playlist is a forgery
	6:40pm Jackie G: Santa Cruz has those weird energy centers.
	🤖 6:40pm chresti: My son once worked at a lending startup that had a ping-pong room.
	6:40pm Franco Twinkie: Oh?
	6:41pm Carmichael: Are you wearing your 15 pieces of flair??
	6:41pm timinoak: And things fall through. That's the breaks. But imagine being an immigrant serving the needs of these tech people. That's hard.
	🤖 6:41pm MarciB: If you've been to Google's "campus" in NYC, it's basically a hotel with workspaces. And some folks do not leave 9as in sleep over).
	🤖 6:42pm Webhamster Henry: "Work-life balance is a lie pushed by workists." -- me
	6:42pm Wild Neil\|\|Peace All: I know a lady who went to Sedona, AZ and the "energy center" made her sick. Be careful with that stuff!
	6:42pm (((Murakami Whywolf): The essence of worship to me has always seemed to me to be the inability or unwillingness to see fault in its object. A such, it's bad whether it's worshipping a person in your private or our public life, a pet, the State, the Market, a firm, your life's supposed narrative, or one of the nigh-innumerable gods we've made-up.
	6:42pm Carmichael: He he, "campus" ...
	6:43pm melinda: @Webham I concur! also I like the word 'workists'.
	6:43pm Jackie G: Sedona, yes, cool energy centers there too. That lady was just getting rid of her negative energy.
	6:44pm ultradamno: I have to assume that's because they all were thinking of stopping at Whole Foods on the way home
	6:44pm Franco Twinkie: Sedona has crappy restaurants.
	🤖 6:45pm chresti: SF's transit system is broken
	🤖 6:45pm Webhamster Henry: @melinda thanks! I did a a guest spot on DJ Dorian''s show a few decades ago talking about workists and the cult of work itself.
	6:45pm Carmichael: Derek Jeter's Taco Hole.
	6:46pm ultradamno: Plus, is that any better than forcing any other religion on people at work?
	6:46pm DanFA: @webham do you have a link to that episode?
	6:46pm (Murakami Whywolf))): Wild Neil\|\|Peace All: It depends on your family….
	🤖 6:46pm Webhamster Henry: @DanFA haha long predating the WFMU archives.
	6:46pm Carmichael: Work is really a personality cult.
	6:46pm castor: this is how mass religious conversion really happens for the most part, little by little the old institutions lose value as the new ones take over their functions, and it's just a practical adjustment for most people.
	6:47pm Rolando: When companies are able to mandate that their employees get vaccinated is when you understand that they have taken on an have assume the position of deity.
	🤖 6:47pm Webhamster Henry: @DanFA that said, I may have an aircheck. It may have been worked into a show on Industrial Musicals.
	6:47pm timinoak: Google busses allow for that change in neighborhoods. Example, higher rents.
	6:48pm Paul: You all may be interested in "The Enchantments of Mammon How Capitalism Became the Religion of Modernity"
	6:48pm DanFA: But we have to avoid Apple TV
	6:49pm Jackie G: Guess its better to work to live, not live to work.
	🤖 6:49pm Webhamster Henry: Watch it on a pirate channel, folks!
	6:49pm Franco Twinkie: I WILL read this book. Carolyn Chen breeched the ramparts of the dark lords and exposed them as the misguided inhumanoids they aspire to be.
	🤖 6:49pm PaulRobeson1922: Oh hey! Neil Postman Technopoly!! Thanks Mark!!! 30 years ago!! 1992 Neil Postman is a lover of wisdom and thank you for bringing him up
	6:49pm chris in the redwoods: the Scottish Laptop!!!! LOLOLOLOLOL!
	6:49pm ultradamno: I take the Lemmy approach to religion myself... Won't be seeing Severence, but recommend The Silent Sea and The Baby as new shows this year
	🤖 6:50pm PaulRobeson1922: NYC’s own son, Neil Postman
	🤖 6:51pm Webhamster Henry: Generation Gaps are still real. #okboomer
	6:51pm Jackie G: Adam Scott from Severance was on Wait, Wait Don't Tell Me last Saturday.
	🤖 6:51pm MarciB: Actually, Gen Jones are the forgotten group. We bridge the Boomers and Gen Xers
	🤖 6:52pm Webhamster Henry: I was born in 1823, Generation P.
	6:52pm ultradamno: Gen X was just bad at self-promoting
	6:52pm Carmichael: My social security number is 6.
	6:52pm Jackie G: The Baby is good but you need close caption to understand what they're saying.
	6:52pm Franco Twinkie: It WAS fun! I remember when there were plum orchards in Silicon Valley. Of course I'm a clueless old codger, so my opinion means squat.
	6:52pm castor: Yes but aren't Bezos and Dorsey Gen X?
	6:53pm ultradamno: @Jackie I have worse time with fantasy shows like The Witcher and Game Of Thrones...
	6:54pm Rolando: Gen X observed what was going on with their hands in their pockets mostly. I think they felt incapable of changing anything. .
	🤖 6:54pm Bas NL: If you just let a park be, it will become a forest.
	6:54pm Jackie G: BTW: new Game of Thrones coming soon.
	6:55pm Franco Twinkie: Amen, Mark, amen!!
	🤖 6:55pm Webhamster Henry: Thanks for the Berry, Mark!
	6:55pm Little Danny: thanks Mark!
	6:56pm Franco Twinkie: RESIST!!!
	🤖 6:56pm PaulRobeson1922: @Franco Twinkie NorthRidge College- picking as many oranges as we could carry- some of the most fun I’ve ever had
	🤖 6:56pm Webhamster Henry: Oh yeah, now I just remembered this thing I wrote years ago: youdoloveus.blogspot.com
	6:56pm ultradamno: I don't know how companies run by egomaniacs can be Buddhists
	🤖 6:57pm MarciB: Gorgeous and moving poem.
	🤖 6:57pm Webhamster Henry: "YOU DO LOVE US WE MAY SEEM TO BE A GLOBALIZED EDIFICE OF CAREFULLY ENGINEERED LAWS, SPECIOUS PATENTS AND SHAM REGULATIONS, BUT OUR PURPOSE IS TO ENGENDER LOVE." -- faceless corp in that blog.
	🤖 6:57pm Ken From Hyde Park: Also: save water, don't take a bath!
	6:57pm (Murakami Whywolf))): Very few went West for Enlightenment or for technology jobs; most people stayed home, got terrible jobs and produced children a lot like them, and an awful lot of them fell for religions even worse than the technoligy firms',.e.g. guns, racism, anti-vaccination and other Flat Eartherisms, Prosperity Gospel, Trump, xenophobia, all the brain-worms.
	🤖 6:57pm pollypinocle: Thank you!!
	6:57pm Franco Twinkie: Take a dirt bath like a bird!
	6:58pm castor: thank you Mark!
	6:58pm David in London: Really nicely read Mark. Great show. Night all.
	🤖 6:58pm PaulRobeson1922: Poetry cleanses…
	6:58pm Jackie G: Techtonic: one of the best shows on FMU. Good poem, Mark Thank you
	6:58pm Fredericks: Mad Plumber poem?
	6:58pm listener 126464: Thanks again Mark.
	6:58pm chris in the redwoods: thanks, Mark!
	6:58pm melinda: thanks Mark!
	6:58pm P-90: Wendell Berry is due for a revival… Thanks @Mark!
	🤖 6:58pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark! Thanks Carolyn!
	6:58pm Jeff Moore: Thanks, Mark!
	6:58pm Franco Twinkie: I'm gonna go swimming. Bye Mark -thanks.
	🤖 6:59pm chresti: Thanks Mark!
	🤖 6:59pm Will the Sound Guy: Enjoyed the interview, Thank you Mark and Carolyn!!!
	🤖 6:59pm Webhamster Henry: If you're looking for a meaningful poetry show, there's one on WGXC: wavefarm.org...
	7:00pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
	🤖 7:01pm Ken From Hyde Park: Thanks, Mark. Go in peace to serve the CEO.
	🤖 7:01pm Webhamster Henry: Thanks Mark! I'm also looking forward to Dave Mandl and Perry Metzger next week.
	7:01pm WR: Thank you Mark!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from May 9, 2022

View Mark Hurst's profile

Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

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Upcoming events:

Mon. Dec 30th, 6pm - 7pm: Andrew Smith, author, "Devil in the Stack" (More info...)
Writer Andrew Smith decided to learn computer programming in his 50s. What happened next is captured in his book "Devil in the Stack: A Code Odyssey," and wide-ranging tour through computer history, neuroscience, and the friendliest programming language.

May 9, 2022: Carolyn Chen, author, "Work Pray Code: When Work Becomes Religion in Silicon Valley"

Listen to this show: Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Today: Carolyn Chen, author, "Work Pray Code"

• Work Pray Code: When Work Becomes Religion in Silicon Valley, by Carolyn Chen

• carolynchen.org, author site, with this bio: “Carolyn Chen, a sociologist, is Associate Professor of Ethnic Studies at the University of California, Berkeley. The daughter of Taiwanese immigrants, she grew up in Pennsylvania and Southern California. Carolyn received her A.B. from Brown University, and her Ph.D. in Sociology from UC Berkeley. She previously taught at Northwestern University in the Department of Sociology, as well as in the Program in Asian American Studies, where she served as Director. Chen’s research focuses on religion, spirituality and work in the new economy, as well as Asian American religions.”

• About those kill-switched Ukrainian tractors (Cory Doctorow, May 8, 2022): “John Deere makes this claim: in its battles against the right to repair, Deere styles itself as the guardian of the world’s food supply, whose information security is all that stands between us and a Russian (or Chinese, or supervillain) shutdown of the world’s ag-tech. They’re not wrong: John Deere’s decision to build ag-tech that can be remotely controlled, disabled and updated, along with its monopolization of the world’s ag-tech market, means that anyone who compromises its system puts the world’s food-supply at risk. Which is a terrifying proposition, because John Deere has extraordinarily terrible information security. ... That means that the tool that Deere used to brick all those stolen tractors in Chechnya is potentially available to even moderately skilled hackers who exploit Deere’s reckless decision to build kill-switches into its equipment and its negligent security.”

• This Is How Much Money You Have Now if You Bought $100 of Crypto 6 Months Ago (Gizmodo, today, May 9, 2022)

• GoFundMe for DJ Bryce, who was injured in a motorbike accident last month

• Sign up to get Mark's weekly email newsletter. You can also join Mark’s Creative Good community.

PAST EPISODES: techtonic.fm lists recent Techtonic shows.

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist	Track	Album	Label	Approx. start time
Carolyn Chen, author, "Work Pray Code: When Work Becomes Religion in Silicon Valley"
Tomaš Dvořák	Game Boy Tune "Game Boy Tune" by "Tomaš Dvořák"	Machinarium Soundtrack	n/a
	Mark's intro "Mark's intro"
	Interview with Carolyn Chen "Interview with Carolyn Chen"			0:04:25 (Pop-up)
	Mark's comments "Mark's comments"			0:43:21 (Pop-up)
DJ Cremoso	Losing My Religion Remix (Rüstico Mashup)	n/a	n/a	0:55:47 (Pop-up)

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Listener comments!
	6:00pm ultradamno: Mark! Techtonotarists!
	6:00pm David in London: Evening Mark and all Technoids.
	6:00pm listener james from westwood: Evening, Mark and all!
	🤖 6:00pm Will the Sound Guy: Hi Mark and all, Bluetooth and mowing the yard!
	6:03pm melinda: hello techtines
	6:03pm chris in the redwoods: hi, Mark. hi, technicians.
	6:03pm DanFA: Will we be getting a crossover with Music of Mind Control?
	6:03pm DanFA: So goes Silicon Valley, so goes the country.
	🤖 6:04pm tim from washington: Hi Mark and everyone! Mark - Your show in overlapping with Music For Mind Control more frequently.
	🤖 6:04pm PaulRobeson1922: Good evening WFMU Land!
	6:04pm Neels: @DanFA ooo that would be something
	6:04pm Franco Twinkie: Work and religion - two things I only have a hazy concept of.
	6:05pm DanFA: @tim from Washington- great minds think alike. See my comment above yours
	6:05pm Rolando: Greetings
	🤖 6:06pm tim from washington: DanFA - !!!!!
	🤖 6:06pm MarciB: Oh boy - I'm bracing myself for this one!
	6:06pm DanFA: F**k it! We'll do it live!
	6:07pm David in London: To quote the great John Steed, “I tried work once. It didn’t work out. Too much like hard work.”
	6:07pm melinda: @DanFA haha
	6:07pm castor: Hi Mark and everyone, sounds like a fascinating topic!
	🤖 6:07pm Webhamster Henry: This should be fun! I've always wanted to write something called the Word Made Silicon, about how people will believe things they read on the computer as if they were as infallible as a Biblical Truth.
	🤖 6:08pm Webhamster Henry: That goes with the "Pray" part of tonight's theme.
	6:08pm Mark Hurst: Hi all, thanks for joining! @ultra @james @willTSG @melinda @chris @danfa @timWA @paulR @Neels @FrancoT @DanFA @Marci @DiL @melinda @castor @webham !
	6:09pm JR: Is it ok to surrender to WFMU?
	6:09pm Rolando: The government would love us to worship them to
	🤖 6:10pm PaulRobeson1922: Neil Postman called it!! The promotion of one Deity, even a technological one, requires the trivialization of all others Durkheim, yes. I love you
	6:11pm castor: it makes sense to discourage other's religion if you want them to worship in a way that empowers the new leaders
	🤖 6:11pm Webhamster Henry: @DiL Avengers, Dissemble!
	6:11pm Little Danny: hi mark hi all!
	🤖 6:11pm tim from washington: I'm not all that into David Foster Wallace either.
	🤖 6:13pm PaulRobeson1922: Carolyn Chen’s "Work Pray Code: When Work Becomes Religion in Silicon Valley” I’m going to buy the book 100%
	6:14pm Jackie G: work.....WORK?! Pray.....PRAY!? Police....POLICE!? - Maynard G Krebs
	6:14pm castor: I've been taking a class on the hellenization and christianization of ancient Egypt and it's the same exact story
	6:14pm timinoak: For the money. For the success. It's a choice. It's built into the tech culture. I've seen this with military officers as well.
	6:15pm Franco Twinkie: David Foster Wallace wrote razor sharp observational journalism - meta fiction? not so sure. His sense of fictional invention was without a soul. But It was funny....sometimes.
	🤖 6:15pm Webhamster Henry: Hey, Eastman Kodak had its own calendar, that's a good sign that a religion is nearby.
	6:15pm (Murakami Whywolf))): I considered going from evangelical Christianity to most technology firms' faiths to be an improvement. For one thing, their usual proposition, 'We will succeed and you will be rich.', is subjectable to reality-testing.
	6:16pm Jackie G: David Foster Walace was a good writer. But he was too smart for his own good.
	🤖 6:16pm DjLorraine: Interesting topic. Time and attention, yes.
	6:16pm Franco Twinkie: Well put Jake.
	🤖 6:18pm Webhamster Henry: We old people don't last long in tech these days....
	🤖 6:18pm MarciB: The transference of loyalty from church to work sounds like what happens to many addicts - they give up their main vice then pick up a new, usually less harmful, one. This is not to say religious folks are addicts (or vice versa), just noting the similarities. I've seen so many friends go thru this very scenario.
	6:19pm melinda: I have a hard time imagining any job or company that would inspire that kind of devotion from me.
	6:19pm Rolando: I have seen all of us in the workplace in the UK where I spent a lot of time and also here in Australia this is the truth. As Bob Dylan says you’ve gotta serve somebody, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord but you’re gonna have to serve somebody
	6:19pm (((Murakami Whywolf): Technology companies often get a lot of their devotion because they give their coders the opportunity to feel a craftperson's mastery of their techniques and materials…and in many cases to live better than most of the people with whom they grew-up.
	🤖 6:20pm DjLorraine: Franco Twinkie you have lovely fresh nutrient dense pictures
	🤖 6:20pm MarciB: I'm glad I'm self-employed! (and I take a lot of breaks)
	🤖 6:22pm Webhamster Henry: For a really good satire on this theme, check out Severance on Apple TV.
	6:22pm ultradamno: I can't be self employed. I hate the management too much.
	6:22pm Rolando: Over 10 years ago I read or heard that it’s the middle managers who are burning out, and of course the bottom feeders who are always disposable apparently. All the care is given to the king bees and queen bees at the top.
	🤖 6:22pm Folsom: I remember watching the Apollo documentary series "Moon Machines", those guys working on the LEM computer ended up divorced since they were working long hours.
	6:22pm Mark Hurst: @Webham good point - I've been hearing good things about Severance.
	🤖 6:23pm tim from washington: Thanks, Mark. This interview is fascinating. I've got to split early but I will dig into it again in the archives. Thanks again, Mark and Carolyn!
	6:23pm DanFA: @Mark, did you hear about the Uber engineer who a couple of years ago wanted to create a church of artificial intelligence?www.wired.com...
	6:25pm DanFA: www.wired.com...
	🤖 6:25pm chresti: WFMU is my religion. Where might I find the ping-pong table?
	6:25pm chris in the redwoods: agreed about Severance, its a very intelligence and compelling commentary.
	6:26pm DanFA: @Chresti, the ping pong table is within you. It is merely a symbol of WFMU's everlasting love.
	6:26pm Mark Hurst: @DanFA oh yes, Anthony Levandowski - who's come up a couple of times (briefly) on past episodes. His "church of the AI" was an interesting idea until he got convicted of, I think it was, criminal charges. Later enjoyed a presidential pardon.
	🤖 6:26pm PaulRobeson1922: Trust in the Ultimate
	6:26pm DanFA: @Mark of course he did.
	6:26pm Carmichael: Because of Jobs, he became a buddhist.
	6:27pm DanFA: Station Manager Ken, if you're listening, can WFMU form its own religion?
	🤖 6:27pm MarciB: @Chresti - that's one religion I can get behind. Oh wait, I'm all in!
	6:28pm castor: Siliconism is to Buddhism what Christianity is to Judaism...???
	6:28pm Franco Twinkie: Yesterday morning I was at the farmers market. Buddhist monks from the local temple walked thru barefoot in a procession, blessing the food and farmers who grow it. That is a application of religion I can get behind. Blessing machines - BAH!
	🤖 6:28pm PaulRobeson1922: I trust WFMU. Team trust
	🤖 6:29pm Webhamster Henry: @Crmichael little did they know, he was wearing alien possessed turtlenecks.
	🤖 6:29pm MarciB: @Franco - that's a beautiful ritual, how wonderful.
	6:29pm (((Murakami Whywolf): U.S. Americans already worship work—the strongest criticism one can make of someone's unpopular opinion is 'Youʼve never had a _real_ job, have you?' and we don't take most of even the pease-poor vacation hours we're given. As far as I know, technology industry people at coder level or above at least are getting a better deal than most of the rest of us.
	6:29pm Carmichael: He and Stephanopalous, Henry.
	6:30pm Dean: I recall a mid-'90s upward trend of interest in Buddhism, specifically Jewish Buddhism, thanks to Kamenetz's The Jew in the Lotus.
	6:30pm Little Danny: really excellent contextualization of present day tech culture in the history of American counterculture and its relationship to Eastern practices
	6:30pm DanFA: I think the Peter Thiel analog on the show Silicon Valley had a spiritual adviser who was really a fake mystic.
	🤖 6:30pm Webhamster Henry: @Franco I actually drew "St. Mary Of The Micro" , a patron saint to keep out 8008 based homemade computer from crashing back in 1978.
	🤖 6:30pm DjLorraine: Chresti would a satellite office tennis court do? ; )
	6:30pm Fredericks: MarciB: Once I was messed up on drugs; now I'm messed up on the Lord.
	6:31pm Wild Neil\|\|Peace All: He left out generation X.
	6:31pm Carmichael: I'm about to sell back 480 hours of vacation to The Man when I retire. Their turn to suck it.
	6:31pm castor: Stoicism is also really big there, both that and Buddhism encourage passivity and self transformation over social transformation
	6:32pm DanFA: Hahahahahhahahhhahhahha
	6:32pm (Murakami Whywolf))): Zen can be a fine discipline, but from the samurai all the way to the Nazi Eugen Herrigel it has been used as an excuse for heartlessness.
	6:32pm Rolando: Do you remember when we used to laugh at the Chinese assembling early in the morning for huge spiritual workouts or physical exercise at the start of the working day,
	6:32pm timinoak: So now layer this in with working from home. Imagine the erasure of work boundaries. But this is personal choice. BTW, the bay area is insanely expensive. I feel for the non techs..
	6:32pm ultradamno: @wn everyone does, it's the appeal
	🤖 6:32pm chresti: DJ Lorraine, yes, if there are ping pong tables
	6:32pm melinda: it had to end up in a hot tub at Esalen
	6:33pm Carmichael: Everything ends up in a hot tub is Esalen ...
	6:34pm DanFA: @Mark isn't DJ Arb WFMU's spiritual adviser? Fascinating show, great interview.
	6:34pm WR: I've been in one of the hot tubs at Esalen. It wasn't so hot.
	🤖 6:34pm PaulRobeson1922: 13th Floor Elevators “Trust in the Ultimate…” Hip Pies exist in relation to WWII & The Vietnam War (1954-1975) & Jim Crow America- the Horror and madness cannot be put into words lightly
	🤖 6:35pm Webhamster Henry: @DanFA DJ ARB and Micah.
	6:35pm Carmichael: My spiritual advisors are Beavis & Butthead.
	🤖 6:35pm DjLorraine: Didn't one budha have a wife and offspring waiting for him to help them?
	6:36pm Franco Twinkie: When I got in those tubs at Esalen, it was all stoners and hedonists. Believe me, no one was talking about work.
	6:36pm castor: i never thought i would hear the phrase "colonize the hot tub"
	🤖 6:36pm Webhamster Henry: So is Surveillance excused by Omniscience?
	6:36pm Mark Hurst: @Webham heh.. ask the Omniscience
	6:37pm WR: How many decades ago Franco?
	6:37pm Jackie G: Gray blue is a shade similar to slate.
	6:37pm Wild Neil\|\|Peace All: I think its weird having ping pong tables and gourmet food at work, it means you are spending WAY too much time there. Family is WAY more important.
	6:37pm timinoak: It is their choice. It's lavish benefits. Barrels of money..
	6:37pm Carmichael: Sounds like when I worked at Intel. I refused to drink the Koolaid.
	🤖 6:37pm Bas NL: I'm late! Hi all!
	🤖 6:37pm Webhamster Henry: @Mark The 8-ball says: reply hazy, try again.
	🤖 6:37pm chresti: They groom the workers like racehorses.
	🤖 6:38pm Ken From Hyde Park: Hello, Mark and techtotheorists. Go to work to make money. Go to church to give money. Circle of life and all that.
	6:38pm Mark Hurst: @Bas welcome!
	🤖 6:38pm Webhamster Henry: I never played any of those ping-pong/fußball games. When did anyone have the time?
	6:38pm Mark Hurst: @KenfHP sounds reasonable
	6:39pm Jackie G: Buddhas have such big bellies because their physical energy center is so strong.
	6:39pm Franco Twinkie: WR, 1976. We drove down from Santa Cruz in the middle night. Got stoned - got boiled.
	6:40pm WR: Hey, that was about when I visited my friend out there.
	6:40pm dale: employers try to brainwash us constantly. stay aware, stay independent.
	6:40pm yippie: that greek vase painting of sisyphus on the playlist is a forgery
	6:40pm Jackie G: Santa Cruz has those weird energy centers.
	🤖 6:40pm chresti: My son once worked at a lending startup that had a ping-pong room.
	6:40pm Franco Twinkie: Oh?
	6:41pm Carmichael: Are you wearing your 15 pieces of flair??
	6:41pm timinoak: And things fall through. That's the breaks. But imagine being an immigrant serving the needs of these tech people. That's hard.
	🤖 6:41pm MarciB: If you've been to Google's "campus" in NYC, it's basically a hotel with workspaces. And some folks do not leave 9as in sleep over).
	🤖 6:42pm Webhamster Henry: "Work-life balance is a lie pushed by workists." -- me
	6:42pm Wild Neil\|\|Peace All: I know a lady who went to Sedona, AZ and the "energy center" made her sick. Be careful with that stuff!
	6:42pm (((Murakami Whywolf): The essence of worship to me has always seemed to me to be the inability or unwillingness to see fault in its object. A such, it's bad whether it's worshipping a person in your private or our public life, a pet, the State, the Market, a firm, your life's supposed narrative, or one of the nigh-innumerable gods we've made-up.
	6:42pm Carmichael: He he, "campus" ...
	6:43pm melinda: @Webham I concur! also I like the word 'workists'.
	6:43pm Jackie G: Sedona, yes, cool energy centers there too. That lady was just getting rid of her negative energy.
	6:44pm ultradamno: I have to assume that's because they all were thinking of stopping at Whole Foods on the way home
	6:44pm Franco Twinkie: Sedona has crappy restaurants.
	🤖 6:45pm chresti: SF's transit system is broken
	🤖 6:45pm Webhamster Henry: @melinda thanks! I did a a guest spot on DJ Dorian''s show a few decades ago talking about workists and the cult of work itself.
	6:45pm Carmichael: Derek Jeter's Taco Hole.
	6:46pm ultradamno: Plus, is that any better than forcing any other religion on people at work?
	6:46pm DanFA: @webham do you have a link to that episode?
	6:46pm (Murakami Whywolf))): Wild Neil\|\|Peace All: It depends on your family….
	🤖 6:46pm Webhamster Henry: @DanFA haha long predating the WFMU archives.
	6:46pm Carmichael: Work is really a personality cult.
	6:46pm castor: this is how mass religious conversion really happens for the most part, little by little the old institutions lose value as the new ones take over their functions, and it's just a practical adjustment for most people.
	6:47pm Rolando: When companies are able to mandate that their employees get vaccinated is when you understand that they have taken on an have assume the position of deity.
	🤖 6:47pm Webhamster Henry: @DanFA that said, I may have an aircheck. It may have been worked into a show on Industrial Musicals.
	6:47pm timinoak: Google busses allow for that change in neighborhoods. Example, higher rents.
	6:48pm Paul: You all may be interested in "The Enchantments of Mammon How Capitalism Became the Religion of Modernity"
	6:48pm DanFA: But we have to avoid Apple TV
	6:49pm Jackie G: Guess its better to work to live, not live to work.
	🤖 6:49pm Webhamster Henry: Watch it on a pirate channel, folks!
	6:49pm Franco Twinkie: I WILL read this book. Carolyn Chen breeched the ramparts of the dark lords and exposed them as the misguided inhumanoids they aspire to be.
	🤖 6:49pm PaulRobeson1922: Oh hey! Neil Postman Technopoly!! Thanks Mark!!! 30 years ago!! 1992 Neil Postman is a lover of wisdom and thank you for bringing him up
	6:49pm chris in the redwoods: the Scottish Laptop!!!! LOLOLOLOLOL!
	6:49pm ultradamno: I take the Lemmy approach to religion myself... Won't be seeing Severence, but recommend The Silent Sea and The Baby as new shows this year
	🤖 6:50pm PaulRobeson1922: NYC’s own son, Neil Postman
	🤖 6:51pm Webhamster Henry: Generation Gaps are still real. #okboomer
	6:51pm Jackie G: Adam Scott from Severance was on Wait, Wait Don't Tell Me last Saturday.
	🤖 6:51pm MarciB: Actually, Gen Jones are the forgotten group. We bridge the Boomers and Gen Xers
	🤖 6:52pm Webhamster Henry: I was born in 1823, Generation P.
	6:52pm ultradamno: Gen X was just bad at self-promoting
	6:52pm Carmichael: My social security number is 6.
	6:52pm Jackie G: The Baby is good but you need close caption to understand what they're saying.
	6:52pm Franco Twinkie: It WAS fun! I remember when there were plum orchards in Silicon Valley. Of course I'm a clueless old codger, so my opinion means squat.
	6:52pm castor: Yes but aren't Bezos and Dorsey Gen X?
	6:53pm ultradamno: @Jackie I have worse time with fantasy shows like The Witcher and Game Of Thrones...
	6:54pm Rolando: Gen X observed what was going on with their hands in their pockets mostly. I think they felt incapable of changing anything. .
	🤖 6:54pm Bas NL: If you just let a park be, it will become a forest.
	6:54pm Jackie G: BTW: new Game of Thrones coming soon.
	6:55pm Franco Twinkie: Amen, Mark, amen!!
	🤖 6:55pm Webhamster Henry: Thanks for the Berry, Mark!
	6:55pm Little Danny: thanks Mark!
	6:56pm Franco Twinkie: RESIST!!!
	🤖 6:56pm PaulRobeson1922: @Franco Twinkie NorthRidge College- picking as many oranges as we could carry- some of the most fun I’ve ever had
	🤖 6:56pm Webhamster Henry: Oh yeah, now I just remembered this thing I wrote years ago: youdoloveus.blogspot.com
	6:56pm ultradamno: I don't know how companies run by egomaniacs can be Buddhists
	🤖 6:57pm MarciB: Gorgeous and moving poem.
	🤖 6:57pm Webhamster Henry: "YOU DO LOVE US WE MAY SEEM TO BE A GLOBALIZED EDIFICE OF CAREFULLY ENGINEERED LAWS, SPECIOUS PATENTS AND SHAM REGULATIONS, BUT OUR PURPOSE IS TO ENGENDER LOVE." -- faceless corp in that blog.
	🤖 6:57pm Ken From Hyde Park: Also: save water, don't take a bath!
	6:57pm (Murakami Whywolf))): Very few went West for Enlightenment or for technology jobs; most people stayed home, got terrible jobs and produced children a lot like them, and an awful lot of them fell for religions even worse than the technoligy firms',.e.g. guns, racism, anti-vaccination and other Flat Eartherisms, Prosperity Gospel, Trump, xenophobia, all the brain-worms.
	🤖 6:57pm pollypinocle: Thank you!!
	6:57pm Franco Twinkie: Take a dirt bath like a bird!
	6:58pm castor: thank you Mark!
	6:58pm David in London: Really nicely read Mark. Great show. Night all.
	🤖 6:58pm PaulRobeson1922: Poetry cleanses…
	6:58pm Jackie G: Techtonic: one of the best shows on FMU. Good poem, Mark Thank you
	6:58pm Fredericks: Mad Plumber poem?
	6:58pm listener 126464: Thanks again Mark.
	6:58pm chris in the redwoods: thanks, Mark!
	6:58pm melinda: thanks Mark!
	6:58pm P-90: Wendell Berry is due for a revival… Thanks @Mark!
	🤖 6:58pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark! Thanks Carolyn!
	6:58pm Jeff Moore: Thanks, Mark!
	6:58pm Franco Twinkie: I'm gonna go swimming. Bye Mark -thanks.
	🤖 6:59pm chresti: Thanks Mark!
	🤖 6:59pm Will the Sound Guy: Enjoyed the interview, Thank you Mark and Carolyn!!!
	🤖 6:59pm Webhamster Henry: If you're looking for a meaningful poetry show, there's one on WGXC: wavefarm.org...
	7:00pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone!
	🤖 7:01pm Ken From Hyde Park: Thanks, Mark. Go in peace to serve the CEO.
	🤖 7:01pm Webhamster Henry: Thanks Mark! I'm also looking forward to Dave Mandl and Perry Metzger next week.
	7:01pm WR: Thank you Mark!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from May 9, 2022

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