WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from May 16, 2022

Listener comments!
	6:00pm Meesalikeu: ok let’s tech!
	6:01pm morphe': Don't Tech me There..... original version
	6:01pm Listener Robert: I had to drop Dime Store today to listen to this, since I know Dave Mandl from LBC and Perry Metzger from LPNYC (where he succeeded me as chair). I'm sitting here with Don Meinshausen, both of us eager to hear.
	🤖 6:01pm Webhamster Henry: Hi Dave & Perry! Perry: I'm still using rsynch because of you.
	🤖 6:02pm Bas NL: Hello Dave! Hello Techtonicatici!
	6:03pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: So - enabling the Decentralization that was the original promise of the Internet - or just another ethically corrupt Ponzi scheme - & environmentally devastating technocracy. May I venture a guess ?
	🤖 6:04pm tim from washington: Hi Dave! I'm looking forward to the interview. You can't spell Crypto without C-R-Y-P-T.
	🤖 6:04pm Handy Haversack: Hi, Dave and all. Gotta get cleaned up and ready to go play softball in the rain, apparently. But listening!
	🤖 6:04pm Webhamster Henry: Krypto the Super dog is jealous of Doge.
	6:04pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: 'Crypto' literally 'secret' or hidden.
	6:04pm Dave Mandl: Hello all! Glad to be here.
	🤖 6:05pm chresti: Hi Dave !
	🤖 6:05pm tim from washington: Handy - That sounds like a MacArthur park worthy practice.
	6:05pm morphe': Listener Robert - wow - I am Morphe' from St Marks BkShop = 1982 and LBC at the Anti-WAR Layfayette space .. Michael of Nebraska, Chicago is still a good. friend ..
	6:06pm Dave Mandl: Meesalikeu, morphe', Listener R, Henry, Bas, RRN63, tim, Handy, chresti: Hello!
	6:06pm Niall: I like how blockchain is a ledger and transparent, except for when it isn't.
	6:06pm yippie: not all cryptocurrencies are bad for the environment. each one is different. some are eco friendly
	6:06pm Rolando: Everyone, Hello. I love how Mark hands this tricky subject to our guest 😁
	6:07pm Dave Mandl: Robert: Wow, the LBC.
	6:08pm StringOFperils: What IS the LBC? (not nearly local to you here)
	6:08pm stucco toast: I go with: ponzi. There is promise, but inequality is worse than dollars. For other uses (distributed ledger/database), it will be used by the elite for greater control (eg never have their properties taken).
	6:08pm Listener Robert: Uh, WHICH Michael, Morphé? I knew a few from back there.
	6:09pm Dave Mandl: LBC=Libertarian Book Club, a long-running anarchist (not Libertarian) group in NYC.
	6:09pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: No! No! The Western Capitalist Free Market reflects a fair state of Nature ! ...That's why I can pay Rent with these oak leaves here...
	6:09pm Listener Robert: Perils, it's Libertarian Book Club, which conducted an Anarchist Forum Series.
	6:09pm StringOFperils: Ah, thank you. Interesting.
	6:10pm Doug in MP: woof moo coins?
	6:10pm stucco toast: 'luminati banking corp (LBC)
	6:10pm melinda: hello friends
	6:10pm melinda: @stucco toast haha
	6:10pm Listener Robert: LBC came out of the Lawrence Labadie estate, approximately same source as WRL and Pacifica.
	6:11pm Franco Twinkie: Is there verifiable proof that this benefits anyone?
	6:11pm Dave Mandl: LBC goes way back to the 1930s or even '20s, I think.
	6:12pm Ciggy: CUSIP
	🤖 6:12pm Webhamster Henry: This just in: [Wired] A newly unsealed opinion is likely the first decision from a US federal court to find that cryptocurrencies can't be used to evade sanctions.
	6:13pm Listener Robert: No, LBC is SLIGHTLY more recent, formed shortly after WW2 to get back into print some anarchist classic books that'd gone out of print.
	6:13pm _Ike_: @Franco, I presume we're going to get to that, but I suspect the short answer is no -- besides money launderers, billionaires, con artists, and human-rights violators, for the most part.
	6:13pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...did I mention Ethics...
	🤖 6:14pm Bas NL: The ledger is the comments board. Let's all here have a billion Techtonicoins. Start spending... now.
	6:15pm Franco Twinkie: That's assumed Ike. Now, why would you or me want to take part in this arcane and hermetic system.
	6:16pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...that doesn't sound like the Bas NL I know ...do you have proof...
	6:16pm Listener Robert: I was hoping the Wikipedia entry on Laurance Labadie (how they spell it) would explain these connections, but as of now it doesn't.
	6:17pm StringOFperils: Verifiable proof is crated up and stored in a sub-basement of The Smithsonian, somewhere near the laudanum bottles and telegraph keys.
	🤖 6:18pm Ken From Hyde Park: Does cryptocurrency allow Russia to avoid sanctions? That's my concern.
	🤖 6:19pm Bas NL: Just trust the comments board Rev Rabbit! And trust me.. you can have my billion Techtonicoins.
	6:19pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...well - now yer talkin'...
	6:19pm Franco Twinkie: I like that Bas NL. Let's all become doubters and sceptics like Mark Hurst....and yell at the top of our lungs about this subterfuge.
	6:20pm _Ike_: @KfHP, good point. Though I also spoke with a more liberal-minded Russian who said he might be able to donate to anti-authoritarian journalists using cryptocurrency. But I'm not sure if he actually did it, or if he was just looking into it, and he wasn't certain that P-tin wouldn't be able to find out about it. The idea isn't that P-tin wouldn't, but....
	6:21pm Rolando: There is no such thing as a free lunch (gosh I did not know that the fee's were so high) Mark posted somewhere an amazing chart of what your digital currency would be worth if you purchased 100 dollars in each major currency six months ago.
	🤖 6:22pm Bas NL: Yes Franco T. Or just make and be the system... i feel free (and poor) already. ;)
	6:23pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Accept as a truism that Putin deals in criminal finance - but have heard that cryptocurrencies had also enabled donations to Ukraine.
	6:24pm P-90: Can I just admit that cryptocurrency has bored me ever since it appeared? Anyone else? It was crystal clear to me that Bitcoin was a failure from its original conception, since than it’s been just one of those things where you watch for years as everyone gradually figures out that it’s NOT what some people hoped it would be.
	6:25pm Shamoo: So, good, old-fashioned cash is king for privacy?
	🤖 6:25pm Webhamster Henry: That security breach is mostly out of band, but correlating out of band transactions is what public surveillance culture is all about.
	🤖 6:27pm tim from washington: @P-90 - Similarly, the buttholes who are trying to get filthy rich from ctyptocurrency are trying to live out the real life Dire Straits song: money for nothing and chicks for free.
	6:27pm Shamoo: One of the absolute worst aspects of crypto, to me, is the energy it requires. I think that should be mentioned in every public discussion
	6:28pm Dave Mandl: He'll get to that.
	6:28pm Carmichael: Heya Dave and tech heads. Been a rough Monday.
	🤖 6:29pm Handy Haversack: Hey, Carmichael. Sorry to hear it. Tiki torches going to be able to help?
	🤖 6:30pm Webhamster Henry: there area other alternative currencies - still centrally maintained, which don't have those fees and you could get your coffee and bagel with them ... usually something a little more artisanal, but still.
	6:30pm Franco Twinkie: The inane assumption that we all need more and more accretion of wealth beyond the unknowable projection of what we can spend before we die is just another symptom of the mass insecurity that's ground into our faces every time we engage with the landslide of media that is inescapable.
	6:30pm StringOFperils: The terror of having less.
	6:31pm Carmichael: He, that's a weekend thing Handy. buncha people in my office attended a vendor outreach event, and now they all have COVID. I have been filling out paperwork all day.
	6:31pm Franco Twinkie: YES!
	6:31pm stucco toast: that's the foundation of our consumer capitalist society ! more more more
	🤖 6:31pm Webhamster Henry: The rich are not rich enough, though. Every law we approve tries to redress this awful problem.
	🤖 6:31pm tim from washington: @Webhamster - The bagels and coffee are a little more artisanal? ;)
	🤖 6:32pm Handy Haversack: Oof.
	6:32pm P-90: @tim: it’s mostly just another Beanie Baby to invest in, hoping to make a killing by stiffing the other guy before the whole thing collapses. An Internet tulip bulb craze. The other “use”, as a “free currency”, has been employed by criminals to move money around, but it’s far from the first or best way to do that.
	🤖 6:33pm Bas NL: Let's go native and pay by hands full of horse manure. Nobody likes the idea of being filthy rich. And mining horse manure is a real effort.
	🤖 6:33pm Webhamster Henry: @tim from washington hand grown whole wheat, sustainably harvested, non exploitative coffee beans...
	6:33pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Tulip Boom ✔︎ on Bingo card - Thx P-90.
	6:34pm Franco Twinkie: To technical!? Run like hell nd don't look back.
	🤖 6:34pm tim from washington: Can cryptocurrency miners skirt child labor laws and have minor miners.?
	🤖 6:36pm MarciB: This is going to require repeated listening!
	6:37pm Dave Mandl: @MarciB: Yup.
	🤖 6:38pm Handy Haversack: Even Hercules found it laborious, Bas.
	6:38pm efd: @tim from washington the real trouble starts when those underage miners have those birds that talk a lot.
	6:39pm McGroovey: Bitcoin=tulip bulbs, except that if you throw bitcoins away, flowers don't grow.
	🤖 6:39pm Handy Haversack: Hey, that's mine, ah, bird!
	6:40pm stucco toast: birds aren't real
	6:40pm Jeff Moore: An example of just the sort of discussion fallout I was hoping for when I tuned in: If you look for discussions of The Byzantine Generals Problem, you'll find a paper co-written by Leslie Lamport – whom I know and love as the author of LaTeX, my favorite document description language. (LaTeX is a sub-environment of, and written in, Knuth's TeX) (sort of like the way Emacs started out as a set of TECO macros)
	6:40pm P-90: “minor miner’s minahs?
	🤖 6:40pm Bas NL: Hercules probably wasn't very rich, Handy?
	6:42pm stucco toast: but boy could he clean stables
	6:43pm Rolando: Excellent Guest Interview - so pleased to learn about these issues
	6:43pm Carmichael: What language is that, Jeff?! 🙃
	6:43pm Franco Twinkie: Kind of crazy, kind of crazy. Hmmm? Was this ever a consideration of the people who concocted this madness in the first place?
	6:43pm StringOFperils: Elephantine side-issue: The use of fossil-fuels for electricity generation continues to increase in both absolute and relative terms: in 2017, fossil fuels generated 64.5% of worldwide electricity, compared with 61.9% in 1990. Much of it is sourced from Russia and, so far, the awkward and difficult refusal or inability of several nations to stop that is WHY the sanctions on Russia won't work.
	6:44pm P-90: All the talk about how much electricity Bitcoin burns just underlines what a ridiculous joke the whole thing is.
	🤖 6:44pm Webhamster Henry: We can have a whole conversation about non-crypto banks still holding transactions to get extra fees, and having interest rates that are nowhere near the real transaction cost or the interest rates the banks get from the fed.
	6:44pm Fredericks: Bitcoin is far worst than I thought.
	🤖 6:45pm tim from washington: efd @ 6:38 - you think of everything!
	6:45pm P-90: @String: the sanctions on Russia have already worked, spectacularly
	6:46pm Fredericks: Dave, you are doing a wonderful job. Thanks for interviewing this guy.
	6:46pm BnowB: I just read.. crypto mining would be in the top 30 of countries based on energy consumption.
	6:46pm DanFA: I can just see Mark's blood pressure rising.
	🤖 6:46pm MarciB: I've been hearing so much about "creator coin" with the advent of web3. I'm assuming its a type of crytpocurrency but not sure.
	🤖 6:46pm Webhamster Henry: Perry is a well known crypto (qua crypto) expert.
	6:46pm Dave Mandl: @Fredericks: Thanks! I pretty much just sat back and let him speak.
	6:47pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: 'Motivated Reasoning' ...if I got nothing else from this...
	6:48pm Franco Twinkie: As everyone on this comment board thinks about their total liquid assets and equity combined, who would wager two cents on this insanity?
	🤖 6:48pm Bas NL: Solar panels today still barely produce the energy during their life needed in making them.
	6:48pm melinda: @Rev same here
	6:50pm stucco toast: Are you trying to tell me my money isn't safe in the Bank of Rugpull ?
	6:51pm P-90: “Toy Computer”
	🤖 6:51pm Webhamster Henry: I own 0.0068 ETH You can send me more at jhhljhhl.eth
	6:52pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Robber Barons & the Wild West @ once ?
	6:52pm Fishtown Mike: bitcoinminingheater.com Ruining the economy and the environment at the same time.
	6:54pm P-90: Dave pressing for a conclusion to all this, gets answer: “I don’t know…”
	6:54pm Jerry: Who started this sh*t show, i.e., crypto? It is boring, sorry, I think that is why it has even lasted as long as it has. Hard to sustain attention to grasp
	6:55pm Dave Mandl: @P-90: LOL.
	6:56pm stucco toast: A good non-technical video on some more/other problems: Line Goes Up – The Problem With NFTs. (show your friends, family before they do something dumb)
	🤖 6:56pm chresti: So crypto currency is bad?
	6:56pm Franco Twinkie: There are Gordian Knots worth considering as a solvable puzzle, and then there are confusions of maggots roiling on rotten meat.
	6:56pm mespr: I spent most of my bitcoin on beer, thinking it was a currency. I have a 5BTC wonky desktop I bought on overstock. I'm defending cyrpto because it's the future of banking. Neither stock nor currency, but a means to exchange value. It's better than Swift. It's how no one owns banking. That's good for everyone.
	6:57pm Jerry: That's the key to creating systems that elude attention--make them super boring
	6:57pm melinda: haha, love his reaction to nfts
	6:57pm DanFA: NFT (National Football Token)
	6:57pm Jeff Moore: "NFTs, which are... oh, God."
	6:57pm DanFA: @Chresti, yes, very bad. Not good. Very bad for you.
	6:57pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: One thing - it's awkward (for some of us) to come down on the side of Bankers & the Federal Govt.
	6:58pm Carmichael: Crypto is just stupid. It really serves no purpose, other than to accumulate fake wealth. Just like Facebook friends.
	🤖 6:58pm Webhamster Henry: Aw, Perry, AI's will write flawless software!
	🤖 6:58pm chresti: If crypto currency could talk, I imagine it would sound like Perry.
	6:58pm McGroovey: ... Almost as dependable as software... ~~shudder~~
	6:58pm Franco Twinkie: RESIST!
	🤖 6:59pm Ken From Hyde Park: Thanks, Dave & Perry. In summary: It's a Ponzi scheme, isn't it?
	6:59pm efd: Thanks for this, Dave!
	6:59pm Threemoons 🌛🌕🌜: Awesome show!!
	6:59pm morphe': Thanks Dave and all ..
	6:59pm Carmichael: Perry Como.
	6:59pm P-90: @Jerry: you can spot it as a scam immediately and be bored by it because that’s all it is, or you can get sucked into potentially endless fascination with all the technical details, desperately hoping to figure out how to make it work for you.
	6:59pm StringOFperils: Lemme see, I have about 23 bucks in legacy currency, so...This is like watching polo for me, but very interesting nonetheless. Thank you Dave and Perry. And P-90, thank you, I would have been better to add the word 'definitively' at the end of my earlier comment.
	🤖 6:59pm MarciB: Yes more Perry!
	6:59pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: @Franco: Of course - Alexander took a sword to the Gordian Knot as his solution...
	🤖 6:59pm Bas NL: Thanks Dave & Perry!
	6:59pm SeaCreature: For me, super interesting nerdy show.
	6:59pm melinda: thanks dave, this was great, going to listen again!
	🤖 6:59pm Handy Haversack: Thanks, Dave, Perry! And thanks, softball league for not making us go play in this storm!
	6:59pm DanFA: Good interview.
	🤖 6:59pm MarciB: Thanks Dave, excellent interview!
	6:59pm Jerry: It took centuries for money and currency to evolve. Another example of a f'd up system created by IT "geniuses"
	🤖 6:59pm tim from washington: Thanks, Dave! This was quite insightful.
	6:59pm Rolando: Same thing with NUCLEAR - we have the human side to deal with, the explanation comparing it with Software is excellent. Yes please return Thanks Perry. Thanks Dave
	6:59pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: 'One should avoid taking about NFTs while eating.'
	🤖 7:00pm chresti: Thanks Dave!
	7:00pm P-90: What’s even more boring and useless than cryptocurrency? NFTs.
	7:00pm melinda: @Jerry sure seems that way
	7:00pm mespr: Nope. Not stupid. Look way back in history. Money matters. No one controls crypto, That's the point. Nothing else. All currency is fake.
	7:01pm Dave Mandl: Thanks and good night, all!
	7:01pm BnowB: thanks great show
	7:01pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Jerry - I think that's the nail on the head. To my mind - retrocompatibility is often a trait of actually good Engineering.
	7:01pm P-90: Thanks @Dave!
	7:01pm Jeff Moore: Thanks, Dave (and PM)!
	7:02pm Listener Robert: In that case I'll stay on main channel instead of switching to Sheena's for half of Dimestore. Thanks, it was informative and fun.
	🤖 7:02pm Webhamster Henry: Thanks Dave & Perry good to hear your voices!
	🤖 7:02pm Handy Haversack: Great summaries of crypto and NFTs also in pix on this Techtonic playlist: www.wfmu.org...
	🤖 7:03pm Handy Haversack: I love this deeply: wfmu.org...
	🤖 7:03pm Webhamster Henry: Hey Dave, how about putting the bed music in the playlist?
	7:03pm stucco toast: oh i can post links here? here's the Line Goes Up – The Problem With NFTs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g&ab_channel=FoldingIdeas
	7:04pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Anything - anything but changing what Weatlh means in terms of Social Equity, Quality of Life - &/or even the Democratic Will of the actual Majority. Nothing Predatory to see here... Perpetuate the Myth of Scarcity even @ the cost of all the electricity in the world...
	7:05pm Dave Mandl: Henry: Too late. It's the group Klimperei, track title: "Phare-est."
	7:05pm Jerry: Thank you, RR63!
	7:07pm Jerry: Thank you, Handy--shows the total insanity of it. And because it is using all those resources OF THE WORLD it really needs regulation!
	2:13pm John Dalton: Listening on the archive. Thanks, Dave and Perry!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from May 16, 2022

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

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May 16, 2022: Perry Metzger interview (cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin), with guest host Dave Mandl

Listen to this show: Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Artist	Track	Album	Label	Year	Format	Comments	Images	New * / Special ***	Approx. start time
L'Ensemble Rayé	Phare-est "Phare-est" by "L'Ensemble Rayé"	Quelques Pièces Détachées	AYAA
Perry Metzger	Interview "Interview" by "Perry Metzger"								0:01:15 (Pop-up)

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Listener comments!
	6:00pm Meesalikeu: ok let’s tech!
	6:01pm morphe': Don't Tech me There..... original version
	6:01pm Listener Robert: I had to drop Dime Store today to listen to this, since I know Dave Mandl from LBC and Perry Metzger from LPNYC (where he succeeded me as chair). I'm sitting here with Don Meinshausen, both of us eager to hear.
	🤖 6:01pm Webhamster Henry: Hi Dave & Perry! Perry: I'm still using rsynch because of you.
	🤖 6:02pm Bas NL: Hello Dave! Hello Techtonicatici!
	6:03pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: So - enabling the Decentralization that was the original promise of the Internet - or just another ethically corrupt Ponzi scheme - & environmentally devastating technocracy. May I venture a guess ?
	🤖 6:04pm tim from washington: Hi Dave! I'm looking forward to the interview. You can't spell Crypto without C-R-Y-P-T.
	🤖 6:04pm Handy Haversack: Hi, Dave and all. Gotta get cleaned up and ready to go play softball in the rain, apparently. But listening!
	🤖 6:04pm Webhamster Henry: Krypto the Super dog is jealous of Doge.
	6:04pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: 'Crypto' literally 'secret' or hidden.
	6:04pm Dave Mandl: Hello all! Glad to be here.
	🤖 6:05pm chresti: Hi Dave !
	🤖 6:05pm tim from washington: Handy - That sounds like a MacArthur park worthy practice.
	6:05pm morphe': Listener Robert - wow - I am Morphe' from St Marks BkShop = 1982 and LBC at the Anti-WAR Layfayette space .. Michael of Nebraska, Chicago is still a good. friend ..
	6:06pm Dave Mandl: Meesalikeu, morphe', Listener R, Henry, Bas, RRN63, tim, Handy, chresti: Hello!
	6:06pm Niall: I like how blockchain is a ledger and transparent, except for when it isn't.
	6:06pm yippie: not all cryptocurrencies are bad for the environment. each one is different. some are eco friendly
	6:06pm Rolando: Everyone, Hello. I love how Mark hands this tricky subject to our guest 😁
	6:07pm Dave Mandl: Robert: Wow, the LBC.
	6:08pm StringOFperils: What IS the LBC? (not nearly local to you here)
	6:08pm stucco toast: I go with: ponzi. There is promise, but inequality is worse than dollars. For other uses (distributed ledger/database), it will be used by the elite for greater control (eg never have their properties taken).
	6:08pm Listener Robert: Uh, WHICH Michael, Morphé? I knew a few from back there.
	6:09pm Dave Mandl: LBC=Libertarian Book Club, a long-running anarchist (not Libertarian) group in NYC.
	6:09pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: No! No! The Western Capitalist Free Market reflects a fair state of Nature ! ...That's why I can pay Rent with these oak leaves here...
	6:09pm Listener Robert: Perils, it's Libertarian Book Club, which conducted an Anarchist Forum Series.
	6:09pm StringOFperils: Ah, thank you. Interesting.
	6:10pm Doug in MP: woof moo coins?
	6:10pm stucco toast: 'luminati banking corp (LBC)
	6:10pm melinda: hello friends
	6:10pm melinda: @stucco toast haha
	6:10pm Listener Robert: LBC came out of the Lawrence Labadie estate, approximately same source as WRL and Pacifica.
	6:11pm Franco Twinkie: Is there verifiable proof that this benefits anyone?
	6:11pm Dave Mandl: LBC goes way back to the 1930s or even '20s, I think.
	6:12pm Ciggy: CUSIP
	🤖 6:12pm Webhamster Henry: This just in: [Wired] A newly unsealed opinion is likely the first decision from a US federal court to find that cryptocurrencies can't be used to evade sanctions.
	6:13pm Listener Robert: No, LBC is SLIGHTLY more recent, formed shortly after WW2 to get back into print some anarchist classic books that'd gone out of print.
	6:13pm _Ike_: @Franco, I presume we're going to get to that, but I suspect the short answer is no -- besides money launderers, billionaires, con artists, and human-rights violators, for the most part.
	6:13pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...did I mention Ethics...
	🤖 6:14pm Bas NL: The ledger is the comments board. Let's all here have a billion Techtonicoins. Start spending... now.
	6:15pm Franco Twinkie: That's assumed Ike. Now, why would you or me want to take part in this arcane and hermetic system.
	6:16pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...that doesn't sound like the Bas NL I know ...do you have proof...
	6:16pm Listener Robert: I was hoping the Wikipedia entry on Laurance Labadie (how they spell it) would explain these connections, but as of now it doesn't.
	6:17pm StringOFperils: Verifiable proof is crated up and stored in a sub-basement of The Smithsonian, somewhere near the laudanum bottles and telegraph keys.
	🤖 6:18pm Ken From Hyde Park: Does cryptocurrency allow Russia to avoid sanctions? That's my concern.
	🤖 6:19pm Bas NL: Just trust the comments board Rev Rabbit! And trust me.. you can have my billion Techtonicoins.
	6:19pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...well - now yer talkin'...
	6:19pm Franco Twinkie: I like that Bas NL. Let's all become doubters and sceptics like Mark Hurst....and yell at the top of our lungs about this subterfuge.
	6:20pm _Ike_: @KfHP, good point. Though I also spoke with a more liberal-minded Russian who said he might be able to donate to anti-authoritarian journalists using cryptocurrency. But I'm not sure if he actually did it, or if he was just looking into it, and he wasn't certain that P-tin wouldn't be able to find out about it. The idea isn't that P-tin wouldn't, but....
	6:21pm Rolando: There is no such thing as a free lunch (gosh I did not know that the fee's were so high) Mark posted somewhere an amazing chart of what your digital currency would be worth if you purchased 100 dollars in each major currency six months ago.
	🤖 6:22pm Bas NL: Yes Franco T. Or just make and be the system... i feel free (and poor) already. ;)
	6:23pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Accept as a truism that Putin deals in criminal finance - but have heard that cryptocurrencies had also enabled donations to Ukraine.
	6:24pm P-90: Can I just admit that cryptocurrency has bored me ever since it appeared? Anyone else? It was crystal clear to me that Bitcoin was a failure from its original conception, since than it’s been just one of those things where you watch for years as everyone gradually figures out that it’s NOT what some people hoped it would be.
	6:25pm Shamoo: So, good, old-fashioned cash is king for privacy?
	🤖 6:25pm Webhamster Henry: That security breach is mostly out of band, but correlating out of band transactions is what public surveillance culture is all about.
	🤖 6:27pm tim from washington: @P-90 - Similarly, the buttholes who are trying to get filthy rich from ctyptocurrency are trying to live out the real life Dire Straits song: money for nothing and chicks for free.
	6:27pm Shamoo: One of the absolute worst aspects of crypto, to me, is the energy it requires. I think that should be mentioned in every public discussion
	6:28pm Dave Mandl: He'll get to that.
	6:28pm Carmichael: Heya Dave and tech heads. Been a rough Monday.
	🤖 6:29pm Handy Haversack: Hey, Carmichael. Sorry to hear it. Tiki torches going to be able to help?
	🤖 6:30pm Webhamster Henry: there area other alternative currencies - still centrally maintained, which don't have those fees and you could get your coffee and bagel with them ... usually something a little more artisanal, but still.
	6:30pm Franco Twinkie: The inane assumption that we all need more and more accretion of wealth beyond the unknowable projection of what we can spend before we die is just another symptom of the mass insecurity that's ground into our faces every time we engage with the landslide of media that is inescapable.
	6:30pm StringOFperils: The terror of having less.
	6:31pm Carmichael: He, that's a weekend thing Handy. buncha people in my office attended a vendor outreach event, and now they all have COVID. I have been filling out paperwork all day.
	6:31pm Franco Twinkie: YES!
	6:31pm stucco toast: that's the foundation of our consumer capitalist society ! more more more
	🤖 6:31pm Webhamster Henry: The rich are not rich enough, though. Every law we approve tries to redress this awful problem.
	🤖 6:31pm tim from washington: @Webhamster - The bagels and coffee are a little more artisanal? ;)
	🤖 6:32pm Handy Haversack: Oof.
	6:32pm P-90: @tim: it’s mostly just another Beanie Baby to invest in, hoping to make a killing by stiffing the other guy before the whole thing collapses. An Internet tulip bulb craze. The other “use”, as a “free currency”, has been employed by criminals to move money around, but it’s far from the first or best way to do that.
	🤖 6:33pm Bas NL: Let's go native and pay by hands full of horse manure. Nobody likes the idea of being filthy rich. And mining horse manure is a real effort.
	🤖 6:33pm Webhamster Henry: @tim from washington hand grown whole wheat, sustainably harvested, non exploitative coffee beans...
	6:33pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Tulip Boom ✔︎ on Bingo card - Thx P-90.
	6:34pm Franco Twinkie: To technical!? Run like hell nd don't look back.
	🤖 6:34pm tim from washington: Can cryptocurrency miners skirt child labor laws and have minor miners.?
	🤖 6:36pm MarciB: This is going to require repeated listening!
	6:37pm Dave Mandl: @MarciB: Yup.
	🤖 6:38pm Handy Haversack: Even Hercules found it laborious, Bas.
	6:38pm efd: @tim from washington the real trouble starts when those underage miners have those birds that talk a lot.
	6:39pm McGroovey: Bitcoin=tulip bulbs, except that if you throw bitcoins away, flowers don't grow.
	🤖 6:39pm Handy Haversack: Hey, that's mine, ah, bird!
	6:40pm stucco toast: birds aren't real
	6:40pm Jeff Moore: An example of just the sort of discussion fallout I was hoping for when I tuned in: If you look for discussions of The Byzantine Generals Problem, you'll find a paper co-written by Leslie Lamport – whom I know and love as the author of LaTeX, my favorite document description language. (LaTeX is a sub-environment of, and written in, Knuth's TeX) (sort of like the way Emacs started out as a set of TECO macros)
	6:40pm P-90: “minor miner’s minahs?
	🤖 6:40pm Bas NL: Hercules probably wasn't very rich, Handy?
	6:42pm stucco toast: but boy could he clean stables
	6:43pm Rolando: Excellent Guest Interview - so pleased to learn about these issues
	6:43pm Carmichael: What language is that, Jeff?! 🙃
	6:43pm Franco Twinkie: Kind of crazy, kind of crazy. Hmmm? Was this ever a consideration of the people who concocted this madness in the first place?
	6:43pm StringOFperils: Elephantine side-issue: The use of fossil-fuels for electricity generation continues to increase in both absolute and relative terms: in 2017, fossil fuels generated 64.5% of worldwide electricity, compared with 61.9% in 1990. Much of it is sourced from Russia and, so far, the awkward and difficult refusal or inability of several nations to stop that is WHY the sanctions on Russia won't work.
	6:44pm P-90: All the talk about how much electricity Bitcoin burns just underlines what a ridiculous joke the whole thing is.
	🤖 6:44pm Webhamster Henry: We can have a whole conversation about non-crypto banks still holding transactions to get extra fees, and having interest rates that are nowhere near the real transaction cost or the interest rates the banks get from the fed.
	6:44pm Fredericks: Bitcoin is far worst than I thought.
	🤖 6:45pm tim from washington: efd @ 6:38 - you think of everything!
	6:45pm P-90: @String: the sanctions on Russia have already worked, spectacularly
	6:46pm Fredericks: Dave, you are doing a wonderful job. Thanks for interviewing this guy.
	6:46pm BnowB: I just read.. crypto mining would be in the top 30 of countries based on energy consumption.
	6:46pm DanFA: I can just see Mark's blood pressure rising.
	🤖 6:46pm MarciB: I've been hearing so much about "creator coin" with the advent of web3. I'm assuming its a type of crytpocurrency but not sure.
	🤖 6:46pm Webhamster Henry: Perry is a well known crypto (qua crypto) expert.
	6:46pm Dave Mandl: @Fredericks: Thanks! I pretty much just sat back and let him speak.
	6:47pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: 'Motivated Reasoning' ...if I got nothing else from this...
	6:48pm Franco Twinkie: As everyone on this comment board thinks about their total liquid assets and equity combined, who would wager two cents on this insanity?
	🤖 6:48pm Bas NL: Solar panels today still barely produce the energy during their life needed in making them.
	6:48pm melinda: @Rev same here
	6:50pm stucco toast: Are you trying to tell me my money isn't safe in the Bank of Rugpull ?
	6:51pm P-90: “Toy Computer”
	🤖 6:51pm Webhamster Henry: I own 0.0068 ETH You can send me more at jhhljhhl.eth
	6:52pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Robber Barons & the Wild West @ once ?
	6:52pm Fishtown Mike: bitcoinminingheater.com Ruining the economy and the environment at the same time.
	6:54pm P-90: Dave pressing for a conclusion to all this, gets answer: “I don’t know…”
	6:54pm Jerry: Who started this sh*t show, i.e., crypto? It is boring, sorry, I think that is why it has even lasted as long as it has. Hard to sustain attention to grasp
	6:55pm Dave Mandl: @P-90: LOL.
	6:56pm stucco toast: A good non-technical video on some more/other problems: Line Goes Up – The Problem With NFTs. (show your friends, family before they do something dumb)
	🤖 6:56pm chresti: So crypto currency is bad?
	6:56pm Franco Twinkie: There are Gordian Knots worth considering as a solvable puzzle, and then there are confusions of maggots roiling on rotten meat.
	6:56pm mespr: I spent most of my bitcoin on beer, thinking it was a currency. I have a 5BTC wonky desktop I bought on overstock. I'm defending cyrpto because it's the future of banking. Neither stock nor currency, but a means to exchange value. It's better than Swift. It's how no one owns banking. That's good for everyone.
	6:57pm Jerry: That's the key to creating systems that elude attention--make them super boring
	6:57pm melinda: haha, love his reaction to nfts
	6:57pm DanFA: NFT (National Football Token)
	6:57pm Jeff Moore: "NFTs, which are... oh, God."
	6:57pm DanFA: @Chresti, yes, very bad. Not good. Very bad for you.
	6:57pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: One thing - it's awkward (for some of us) to come down on the side of Bankers & the Federal Govt.
	6:58pm Carmichael: Crypto is just stupid. It really serves no purpose, other than to accumulate fake wealth. Just like Facebook friends.
	🤖 6:58pm Webhamster Henry: Aw, Perry, AI's will write flawless software!
	🤖 6:58pm chresti: If crypto currency could talk, I imagine it would sound like Perry.
	6:58pm McGroovey: ... Almost as dependable as software... ~~shudder~~
	6:58pm Franco Twinkie: RESIST!
	🤖 6:59pm Ken From Hyde Park: Thanks, Dave & Perry. In summary: It's a Ponzi scheme, isn't it?
	6:59pm efd: Thanks for this, Dave!
	6:59pm Threemoons 🌛🌕🌜: Awesome show!!
	6:59pm morphe': Thanks Dave and all ..
	6:59pm Carmichael: Perry Como.
	6:59pm P-90: @Jerry: you can spot it as a scam immediately and be bored by it because that’s all it is, or you can get sucked into potentially endless fascination with all the technical details, desperately hoping to figure out how to make it work for you.
	6:59pm StringOFperils: Lemme see, I have about 23 bucks in legacy currency, so...This is like watching polo for me, but very interesting nonetheless. Thank you Dave and Perry. And P-90, thank you, I would have been better to add the word 'definitively' at the end of my earlier comment.
	🤖 6:59pm MarciB: Yes more Perry!
	6:59pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: @Franco: Of course - Alexander took a sword to the Gordian Knot as his solution...
	🤖 6:59pm Bas NL: Thanks Dave & Perry!
	6:59pm SeaCreature: For me, super interesting nerdy show.
	6:59pm melinda: thanks dave, this was great, going to listen again!
	🤖 6:59pm Handy Haversack: Thanks, Dave, Perry! And thanks, softball league for not making us go play in this storm!
	6:59pm DanFA: Good interview.
	🤖 6:59pm MarciB: Thanks Dave, excellent interview!
	6:59pm Jerry: It took centuries for money and currency to evolve. Another example of a f'd up system created by IT "geniuses"
	🤖 6:59pm tim from washington: Thanks, Dave! This was quite insightful.
	6:59pm Rolando: Same thing with NUCLEAR - we have the human side to deal with, the explanation comparing it with Software is excellent. Yes please return Thanks Perry. Thanks Dave
	6:59pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: 'One should avoid taking about NFTs while eating.'
	🤖 7:00pm chresti: Thanks Dave!
	7:00pm P-90: What’s even more boring and useless than cryptocurrency? NFTs.
	7:00pm melinda: @Jerry sure seems that way
	7:00pm mespr: Nope. Not stupid. Look way back in history. Money matters. No one controls crypto, That's the point. Nothing else. All currency is fake.
	7:01pm Dave Mandl: Thanks and good night, all!
	7:01pm BnowB: thanks great show
	7:01pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Jerry - I think that's the nail on the head. To my mind - retrocompatibility is often a trait of actually good Engineering.
	7:01pm P-90: Thanks @Dave!
	7:01pm Jeff Moore: Thanks, Dave (and PM)!
	7:02pm Listener Robert: In that case I'll stay on main channel instead of switching to Sheena's for half of Dimestore. Thanks, it was informative and fun.
	🤖 7:02pm Webhamster Henry: Thanks Dave & Perry good to hear your voices!
	🤖 7:02pm Handy Haversack: Great summaries of crypto and NFTs also in pix on this Techtonic playlist: www.wfmu.org...
	🤖 7:03pm Handy Haversack: I love this deeply: wfmu.org...
	🤖 7:03pm Webhamster Henry: Hey Dave, how about putting the bed music in the playlist?
	7:03pm stucco toast: oh i can post links here? here's the Line Goes Up – The Problem With NFTs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g&ab_channel=FoldingIdeas
	7:04pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Anything - anything but changing what Weatlh means in terms of Social Equity, Quality of Life - &/or even the Democratic Will of the actual Majority. Nothing Predatory to see here... Perpetuate the Myth of Scarcity even @ the cost of all the electricity in the world...
	7:05pm Dave Mandl: Henry: Too late. It's the group Klimperei, track title: "Phare-est."
	7:05pm Jerry: Thank you, RR63!
	7:07pm Jerry: Thank you, Handy--shows the total insanity of it. And because it is using all those resources OF THE WORLD it really needs regulation!
	2:13pm John Dalton: Listening on the archive. Thanks, Dave and Perry!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from May 16, 2022

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