WFMU: World of Echo with Dave Mandl: Playlist from April 21, 2013

Listener comments!
	9:02pm Dave Mandl: Good evening and welcome, everyone.
	9:05pm Jeff: And good evening to you.
	9:06pm Dave Mandl: Hey Jeff. Good avatar.
	9:06pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Evening, Mr. Mandl. ...Lately, people seem to be waiting each other out on Posting 1st - ??...
	9:07pm Dave Mandl: Hey, RR. Should I give out a reward for first post?
	9:09pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...other posts by the time I said it! ...Chiller than I know AMTemple for (not that I know much)...
	9:10pm fleep: Good evening, Dave. @RRN Maybe it's like being first to show up at a party. Fashionably late etc.
	9:11pm Dave Mandl: Evening, Fleep. That's the advantage of radio over live music. A 9:00 radio show starts at 9. A 9:00 concert starts at 11:30.
	9:15pm G: I'm post-posting
	9:17pm Dave Mandl: Please Mr. Post-Postman
	9:19pm Droll: I think I'll stop using the term "lurking" and go back to the old fashioned phrase "listening".
	9:19pm BDR: Clickclick.
	9:21pm G: Every track you play I'll be hearing you
	9:22pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Excited about the Drummer Throwdown - ! ...I'm sure a reminder about Time & Details is forthcoming... ...Reflections on last week's drumbo discussions: - Subtext that emerges is that Drummers are kinda Underrated in General... ...I think it relevant that The Who are beloved more of Punks & that sort (Moon kinda the Prototype Punk Drummer) - whilst Zep much more by Metalheads & others... ...since there is this sortof Beatles-Stones thang w/ the Who&Zep - & Moon & Bonzo... ...Myself - I'd put up 'Live @ Leeds' to anything Zep did - & The Who came 1st anyhow ...as did The Yardbirds, for that matter - & Cream ...Jeff Beck Group - & Small Faces were a bit relevant as Zep Influence - how often do ZepFans discuss them? ...I get ticked when I see a book about Zep & where they come from & TheWho aren't even mentioned - that's all. It was either Moon or Entwihstle (lore is murky) who even named LedZep: One version of the fairlytale is Beck & Page were fed up w/ the Yardbirds, & The Who were always on thin ice w/ each other, so Moon & Entwhistle would join them & that was going to be the band originally: Moon was going to be Bonzo, in a sense... ...mucho longwinded here...
	9:27pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Irwin mentioned it I think!
	9:28pm BDR: Dave kisses Irwin: "I know it was you." Havana descends into chaotic revolution.
	9:31pm Dave Mandl: Ah. I didn't realize Irwin mentioned it. That's fine. The idea was suggested by someone on this very chat board last Sunday. Sorry, I forget who it was, but thanks.
	9:32pm Droll: Yes, Irwin's the one who can't keep a secret. The upside is now we know all the best stuff he has planned so you can prepare some defensive maneuvers.
	9:32pm Dave Mandl: Anyway, the three of us are excited. Should be a really good show. And what Irwin didn't mention is that I've come up with a name for it.
	9:32pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...then there's not listening but lurking on the CommentsBoard - & most likely being lured into Commenting - which makes me feel distinctly guilty...
	9:33pm Dave Mandl: @Droll: Putting my defenses in place now.
	9:34pm Droll: DM, Would you like a drum roll before you announce the name?
	9:34pm Dave Mandl: Anyway, I'll tell you my tentative title: "People Who Only Need a Beat"
	9:34pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Drummers : 1.) Keep Time. 2.) Hit Things.
	9:34pm Blacktooth: Dude, from some nylon-string peacefulness to the grating, snotty buzz-saw of Electric Eels? This show is ruling tonight!!!
	9:35pm 12539: I'm late!
	9:35pm Droll: RRN, You forgot "Show up late" and "Puke onstage"!
	9:35pm Dave Mandl: @Blacktooth: Why, thanks.
	9:36pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...hard to say whom pioneered that Droll...
	9:38pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...deeply immersed in 'Ptooff!' but know this Deviants not...
	9:40pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...on that tack, Droll - Another thing about Drummers: - Especially Physical. Hard on them. Shows in reunions/revivals...
	9:44pm Dave Mandl: @12539: Better late than never. Much better.
	9:45pm dk: jewlia eisenberg makes a strong case for sicilian tourism with that pizza argument.
	9:45pm Droll: RRN, Charlie Watts is not a super-physical rock drummer. One of the loudest, fastest drummers I ever saw was some jazz dinosaur at least 70 years old. Played with both ends of the sticks so he hardly moved his arms, almost entirely wrist player. But he could unleash a Dennis Chambers scale bomb on demand.
	9:47pm Droll: Pretenders
	9:48pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: - good point - sometimes a drummer will get more plodding when he diminishes...more noticeable in Jazz?...
	9:53pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Charlie Watts a total Jazzbo, of course. - Keith Richards YouTube on Zep: www.youtube.com...
	9:58pm Blacktooth: Was that riffing on Roland Kirk's "Volunteered Slavery" riff of "Hey Jude?" Or am I just crawling up my own musical butt?
	9:58pm Dave Mandl: Droll: You mean "I Go to Sleep"? Yes, but written by Ray Davies, I think. Better known as a Pretenders song, though, I guess.
	9:59pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: No one has said Elvin Jones yet. ...Tony Williams, Roy Haynes...hell, in general Jazz Drummers are proof God loves us & wants us to be Happy...
	10:00pm Blacktooth: Max Roach
	10:00pm Dave Mandl: Well, it was Hey Jude, definitely. Not sure about the Kirk connection.
	10:01pm Dave Mandl: Well, I can't reveal any more names, but I think some of those drummers will be included.
	10:02pm Dave Mandl: If you know me, you know I've got to include the great great Clive Bunker. Ditto for Evan and Jerry Shirley.
	10:02pm tomB: Dave,what's the title again for the British 60s leftfield music book? I'll put it next to Lipstick Traces, the other one you told me about.
	10:04pm Dave Mandl: @tomB: www.amazon.com...
	10:17pm tomB: That same Ron Geesin also shows up in a comic book.
	10:18pm Dave Mandl: Really?!
	10:22pm Dave Mandl: Geesin produced a Bridget St. John LP, and it's absolutely great.
	10:23pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: - lyrical touch on the theremin! ...I wonder - ? - a bit if in fact it isn't so much about 'less than 2%' as being okay w/ better Prog &/or Fusion - esp. undeservedly lesserknown stuff? ...I kinda think Prog's only gotta bad name because mainstream people think it's overplayed Styx or Kansas trax in the 1st place (well - general overindulgence); prettymuch anybody both Smart & a RockFan likes some 'Prog' anyhow...
	10:26pm Dave Mandl: I agree with you on Styx and Kansas. Imposters.
	10:28pm Droll: The debate about Kansas being prog is ongoing. Styx was never considered prog, lacking: flue solos, 7/8 time signature, Mellotron, everyone-solo-at-once, album-side length songs, elfin voiced singing about space, etc. etc. There's NO prog in Styx. Kansas has at least some of those.
	10:28pm G: All they are is schlock in the wind :)
	10:30pm Dave Mandl: @Droll: True. The term "prog" has been distorted over the years. I hated Kansas, but they were obviously trying to copy Yes (good luck with that).
	10:31pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...altho' I also haven't known this Program a really long time... - trying to Google 'Ron Geesin comic book' - & might be more than I wanna get into right now...
	10:32pm Destroit: thumbs up to techno Nashville. That was great.
	10:32pm Droll: Starcastle was obviously trying to copy Yes (did a fine job, actually). I think prog already had a bad enough name by the disco era that it didn't require further distorting. The smear campaign never ended, though. Well maybe, Rush got inducted into the RRHoFaM.
	10:35pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...& the RRHoFaM starts to feel as baffling as the Grammys...
	10:39pm Andrew Waterloo: Something by Rush must have seemed middle-of-the-road enough to make it.
	10:47pm G: Some Rush could pass for 80s hairband music Meanwhile, Genesis got int too, for the poprock There really is a big personal animus between Yes and Ertegun -- check Anderson's lyrics at the beginning of the ABWH album. Ertegun was the main force behind founding the RNRHF. There is RNRHF animus also from the pro-punk rock writers who are still stuck on hating Yes back in 75-76 or so, as a way of getting punk off the ground. I get it, but is there no statute of limitations?
	10:47pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...well - 'less than 2% rock and roll' prob. makes it's point just fine ...but I am saying I'm upfront I don't mind a bit hearing underheard & deserving Prog & Fusion.
	10:48pm fleep: Threepenny Opera-ish
	10:50pm Blacktooth: Say what you want to, this song always kind of kicks out the jams.
	10:50pm Droll: 2%!!! Ahmet died a few years ago, maybe the time is near?
	10:51pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Are the MC5 in the RNRHF - but Rush is? Whatever - but it doesn't speak for me.
	10:52pm G: It speaks for whoever controls the rules and the voting
	10:53pm Dave Mandl: fleep: Yes, that Little Annie disc is extremely Brecht/Weill.
	10:54pm Dave Mandl: Badfinger. C'mon, they were great. Almost better than the Beatles.
	10:55pm fleep: G: It's rigged? I'm shocked. Shocked.
	10:55pm Dave Mandl: I guess no one caught the subtle trick I pulled with the Badfinger song?
	10:55pm bloopy: come and get it
	10:56pm G: Yeah, hard to believe, huh ...
	10:56pm Droll: DM, The extra long pause?
	10:57pm Dave Mandl: Yup. Good catch. I didn't know how obvious it was.
	10:57pm fleep: I thought it was the laptop buffering. Ha!
	10:57pm Droll: I was singing along at home and sounded (more) ridiculous.
	10:58pm Dave Mandl: Haha. I would have completely panicked.
	10:58pm G: Insert Cage's 4:33 there and everyone would notice
	11:00pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...no New York Dolls in the RnRHoF?...nevermind... - Badfinger/Beatles - not an accident of course. The Beatles were pretty much ceasing to be The Beatles by then. ...On the efd/Clay PowerPop throwdown - I think it was Caryn who noted that Power Pop not an esp. commercially successful Genre. Often thot it odd that Beatles are the Biggest Thing Ever, but not the Beatlesque. The Badfinger story is a very very sad one. Some of it is just pure Luck - like The Beatles found a truly caring Manager - & a Producer. - Likewise - people who were too 'Hendrixy' too soon after Hendrix turned the buying public &/or critics off...
	11:02pm Droll: Pshaw! Power pop and prog are two of the most enduring rock genres.
	11:03pm G: with apologies to Faulkner's Nobel address, enduring but not prevailing
	11:03pm Andrew Waterloo: I doubt MC5 will ever make in into the RRHOF. They are just too counter to mainstream sensibility.
	11:05pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: - yeah - thot it was buffering! ...well - Post-Modern, it's a mosaic of any Style(s) anyone wants anyhow...
	11:07pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: You're on it G you literate fellow you.
	11:10pm Dave Mandl: I wouldn't be surprised if the MC5 were inducted. That's the kind of thing they would do--completely ignore them at the time and then make it look like they were hip to them all along. It happens so often.
	11:10pm william.h: ahh looks like that annie anxiety autobiography is already OOP. :(
	11:12pm Dave Mandl: Huh? I thought it was just a few months old.
	11:13pm Dave Mandl: "You Can't Sing the Blues While Drinking Milk"
	11:14pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Andre W - that's it exactly: - What is the relation between Rock & 'mainstream sensibility' ? ...Commercial Rebel Music - what a quaint concept it all is suddenly...one just to has to say that Rock was never about asking for permission in the 1st place & carry on w/ one's own Cultural MicroCosm...
	11:17pm fleep: RRN: Benjamins
	11:17pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: DaveM @ 11:10 - bang.
	11:18pm william.h: maybe the little annie book just isnt available on amazon currently. she's always seemed fascinating and awesome so i bet that would be a great read!
	11:21pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: neato tonalities - 'benjamin' fleep?...Code for 'you're commenting too much dude' ? : )
	11:22pm fleep: RRN: Oh no, as in Franklin, the inventor of the hundred dollar bill. That's why he's on it.
	11:23pm G: benjamins is common urban slang for hundred dollar bills, or sizable money generally, RR63
	11:24pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Money. Right. - Don't see him much - & I'm a cashier...
	11:25pm tahomajohn: roots...^... & .**$
	11:25pm Droll: Benjamins is hip-hop lingo. I don't know how to tell you this, RRN, but rock music is dead. The kids all listen to hippity-hop pantsag music now. Nobody plays any instrument that requires practice, they loop sound effects on a portable computer.
	11:26pm tahomajohn: Copper is moving up big in the market. Arkansas?
	11:26pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Yup. No more strings.
	11:28pm Dave Mandl: I think that's true about rock music. Probably the only way most kids hear it is through their parents.
	11:28pm fleep: (Pulls up pants) Too hippity-hop for the room...
	11:28pm tahomajohn: Now, back to the smelter. The scent of brass.
	11:29pm Andrew Waterloo: People don't even sing any more, the vocals are just animated.
	11:29pm tomB: Turned computer back on to follow playlist. after being jarred by alt Badfinger, only to discover it was all a HOAX! A subliminal promo for the drummer special?
	11:29pm G: Instruments will come back in a few decades among a minuscule coterie. Like artisanal pickle making.
	11:31pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...are those holographic cartoon concerts (Japanese?) getting traction?...
	11:32pm Droll: I would argue rock music died when the people playing rock also grew up with it. Assume rock "starts" with Elvis, the generation that grows up knowing only rock is dominating FM by 1980. DJing and rap started around that time. Coincidence?
	11:34pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: No Droll, not coincidence. G @11:29: What FMU Culture is now?
	11:35pm Kurt Gottschalk: that "alterations" was beautiful! how've i not hears that before?
	11:36pm fleep: Each mainstreaming gives rise to the next rebellion.
	11:36pm Andrew Waterloo: I think Rock 'n roll died when fans became preoccupied with authenticity and started rejecting any advancement as fake and too easy to do. Then everybody grew up around them.
	11:36pm tahomajohn: exo-sellent
	11:36pm 12539: Rock and Roll died because of a well hidden conspiracy among DJs to play no more than 2% on their shows.
	11:37pm tomB: To me, Yes &Genesis are as tedious as Styx &Kansas. Now, Nektar! That's great prog.
	11:37pm G: @RR63: Well, look at the shows on FMU that follow current music in various rock genres, none of which appear on mainstream stations (which in cities and major suburbs cover club music, urban contemporary, and old rock music)
	11:40pm Dave Mandl: @12539: Gulp.
	11:42pm Andrew Waterloo: @12539 I know one of the local rock station DJs. He said he doesn't even care about the music, the station owner programs it, and that guys is stuck in 1995
	11:44pm Droll: tomB, By Yes, do you mean Tales of Topographical Oceans or 90125? And by Genesis do you mean Lamb Lies Down on Broadway or Abacab?
	11:45pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: HipHop starts w/ DJ Herc Brooklyn '72?? - When they talk about Roots of Rap & don't mention DubReggae toasting - I wonder where their heads are @... - In the beginning, HipHop was talking about Urban Realities no one else was talking about @ all - except maybe journalists no one read or a few hardcore Punks. ...Then became Bling SelfAggrandizement - which reflected the Reality also. - One Movement contains seed of another, of course. Or rather - Rap became the New Rebellion - & then the New Establishment, of course. Some of those guys made incomprehensible bank. ...Urban talk to Soundtrack of Gabriel Urbain Fauré. The juxtapostion somewhat Clockwork Orange...
	11:50pm tomB: While I was offline looking for the Ron Geesin comic, I found an earlier issue I hadn't read. The series is Matt Howarth's Savage Henry o/o Langhorne & Jenkintown PA, but published in Livonia MI. Geesin is a major character, but so is his son, Fraser, as well as Conrad Schnitzler. But this was back in '95. Let me know if you want more detail, and I can provide next week after I actually read #1 (can't remember too much from the other issue.)
	11:51pm fleep: The air is full of cricket noise tonight, listening al fresco. The cricket noises are mixing with the Berthet perfectly.
	11:53pm Dave Mandl: Great! Where are you located again?
	11:53pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Oh - Matt Howarth - ! ...Used to see him in 'Heavy Metal' - the comics mag. - Streets beyond the other stuff!
	11:54pm tomB: @Droll There's a difference indeed between the LPs you mention, but to me it's all tedious! Maybe I'd feel different if they disappeared after one LP.
	11:55pm fleep: Dave: Studio City, which is more bucolic in parts than you'd think.
	11:56pm Dave Mandl: Right, I remember. Yes, I love it there. Was there a few years ago.
	11:57pm Dave Mandl: I don't like to drive, so I wouldn't survive in LA.
	12:00am Revolution Rabbit Nov63: I lived in Santa Barbara 16 years. ...Rich people go wherever they want whenever they want...
	12:00am 12539: Thanks Dave!
	12:01am Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Thx DM.
	12:01am Dave Mandl: Hey, thanks for listening/typing folks. Have a great week.

World of Echo with Dave Mandl: Playlist from April 21, 2013

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April 21, 2013

Listen to this show: Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Artist	Track	Album	Approx. start time
Ektroverde	[Track 1] "[Track 1]" by "Ektroverde"	Arpeggio	0:00:00 (Pop-up)
Acid Mothers Temple Family	Shizuku No Youni	Do Whatever You Want, Don't Do Whatever You Don't Want!!	0:05:47 (Pop-up)
Peter Principle	Tippi Rider/Pandemonium	Sedimental Journey	0:09:35 (Pop-up)
Electric Company	Andy Linear "Andy Linear" by "Electric Company"	Omakase	0:15:30 (Pop-up)
Jah Wobble & Keith Levene	Strut "Strut" by "Jah Wobble & Keith Levene"	Yin & Yang	0:18:11 (Pop-up)

Noël Akchoté	Melvins "Melvins" by "Noël Akchoté"	Sonny II	0:29:29 (Pop-up)
Electric Eels	Agitated "Agitated" by "Electric Eels"	God Says Fuck You	0:33:51 (Pop-up)
The Deviants	Billy the Monster "Billy the Monster" by "The Deviants"	The Deviants	0:34:21 (Pop-up)
Anika	I Go to Sleep "I Go to Sleep" by "Anika"	EP	0:37:57 (Pop-up)
Jewlia Eisenberg	Sicily "Sicily" by "Jewlia Eisenberg"	Trilectic	0:41:48 (Pop-up)

Keith Tippett Group	Thank You for the Smile	You Are Here... I Am There	0:55:11 (Pop-up)
Wadada Leo Smith	Malik Al Shabazz and the People of the Shahada	Ten Freedom Summers	0:58:30 (Pop-up)
The Muffins	Monkey with the Golden Eyes	Manna/Mirage	1:03:58 (Pop-up)
Ron Geesin	From an Electric Train	A Raise of Eyebrows	1:06:35 (Pop-up)

Clara Rockmore	Nocturne in C-sharp minor (Chopin)	Lost Theremin Album	1:15:52 (Pop-up)
Wang Zhipeng	Poetics of Disillusion	V/A: Sound Art China: Revolutions per Minute	1:20:12 (Pop-up)
Alfred Bizarro to be Exactly	Techno Nashville	One Way Doomsday Trip To Nowhere - The Complete Recordings 1996-1998	1:23:53 (Pop-up)
Teeth of the Sea	Horses with Hands	Your Mercury	1:31:10 (Pop-up)
Deuter	Der Turm / Fluchpunkt "Der Turm / Fluchpunkt" by "Deuter"	D	1:34:53 (Pop-up)

Little Annie/Baby Dee	Paincheck "Paincheck" by "Little Annie/Baby Dee"	State of Grace	1:46:04 (Pop-up)
Badfinger	No Matter What "No Matter What" by "Badfinger"	No Dice	1:50:28 (Pop-up)
Bonobo	Heaven for the Sinner "Heaven for the Sinner" by "Bonobo"	The North Borders	1:52:04 (Pop-up)
Philip Perkins	Equinox Weather "Equinox Weather" by "Philip Perkins"	Neighborhood With a Sky (Bird Variations)	1:56:07 (Pop-up)
Milcho Leviev	Ice Cream Truck "Ice Cream Truck" by "Milcho Leviev"	Bulgarian Piano Blues	1:58:46 (Pop-up)

Einstürzende Neubauten	Kalte Sterne	Kalte Sterne: Early Recordings	2:07:44 (Pop-up)
Dial	White Lie "White Lie" by "Dial"	168k	2:13:02 (Pop-up)
Tomoko Sauvage	Mylapore "Mylapore" by "Tomoko Sauvage"	Ombrophilia	2:16:12 (Pop-up)
Aethenor	Dream Tassels "Dream Tassels" by "Aethenor"	En Form For Blå	2:20:52 (Pop-up)
Alterations	Berlin 4 "Berlin 4" by "Alterations"	Voila Enough!	2:27:56 (Pop-up)

Reinhold Friedl	Music in Fifths "Music in Fifths" by "Reinhold Friedl"	Mutanza	2:37:45 (Pop-up)
Gabriel Fauré	Piano Quartet No. 1 in C Minor, Op. 15, 2nd mvt	Piano Quartets	2:42:27 (Pop-up)
Pierre Berthet	Part 3 "Part 3" by "Pierre Berthet"	Extended Loudspeakers	2:48:51 (Pop-up)
Alvarius B & Cerberous Shoal	Blood Baby	The Vim & Vigour of Alvarius B. and Cerberus Shoal	2:55:15 (Pop-up)

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Listener comments!
	9:02pm Dave Mandl: Good evening and welcome, everyone.
	9:05pm Jeff: And good evening to you.
	9:06pm Dave Mandl: Hey Jeff. Good avatar.
	9:06pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Evening, Mr. Mandl. ...Lately, people seem to be waiting each other out on Posting 1st - ??...
	9:07pm Dave Mandl: Hey, RR. Should I give out a reward for first post?
	9:09pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...other posts by the time I said it! ...Chiller than I know AMTemple for (not that I know much)...
	9:10pm fleep: Good evening, Dave. @RRN Maybe it's like being first to show up at a party. Fashionably late etc.
	9:11pm Dave Mandl: Evening, Fleep. That's the advantage of radio over live music. A 9:00 radio show starts at 9. A 9:00 concert starts at 11:30.
	9:15pm G: I'm post-posting
	9:17pm Dave Mandl: Please Mr. Post-Postman
	9:19pm Droll: I think I'll stop using the term "lurking" and go back to the old fashioned phrase "listening".
	9:19pm BDR: Clickclick.
	9:21pm G: Every track you play I'll be hearing you
	9:22pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Excited about the Drummer Throwdown - ! ...I'm sure a reminder about Time & Details is forthcoming... ...Reflections on last week's drumbo discussions: - Subtext that emerges is that Drummers are kinda Underrated in General... ...I think it relevant that The Who are beloved more of Punks & that sort (Moon kinda the Prototype Punk Drummer) - whilst Zep much more by Metalheads & others... ...since there is this sortof Beatles-Stones thang w/ the Who&Zep - & Moon & Bonzo... ...Myself - I'd put up 'Live @ Leeds' to anything Zep did - & The Who came 1st anyhow ...as did The Yardbirds, for that matter - & Cream ...Jeff Beck Group - & Small Faces were a bit relevant as Zep Influence - how often do ZepFans discuss them? ...I get ticked when I see a book about Zep & where they come from & TheWho aren't even mentioned - that's all. It was either Moon or Entwihstle (lore is murky) who even named LedZep: One version of the fairlytale is Beck & Page were fed up w/ the Yardbirds, & The Who were always on thin ice w/ each other, so Moon & Entwhistle would join them & that was going to be the band originally: Moon was going to be Bonzo, in a sense... ...mucho longwinded here...
	9:27pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Irwin mentioned it I think!
	9:28pm BDR: Dave kisses Irwin: "I know it was you." Havana descends into chaotic revolution.
	9:31pm Dave Mandl: Ah. I didn't realize Irwin mentioned it. That's fine. The idea was suggested by someone on this very chat board last Sunday. Sorry, I forget who it was, but thanks.
	9:32pm Droll: Yes, Irwin's the one who can't keep a secret. The upside is now we know all the best stuff he has planned so you can prepare some defensive maneuvers.
	9:32pm Dave Mandl: Anyway, the three of us are excited. Should be a really good show. And what Irwin didn't mention is that I've come up with a name for it.
	9:32pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...then there's not listening but lurking on the CommentsBoard - & most likely being lured into Commenting - which makes me feel distinctly guilty...
	9:33pm Dave Mandl: @Droll: Putting my defenses in place now.
	9:34pm Droll: DM, Would you like a drum roll before you announce the name?
	9:34pm Dave Mandl: Anyway, I'll tell you my tentative title: "People Who Only Need a Beat"
	9:34pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Drummers : 1.) Keep Time. 2.) Hit Things.
	9:34pm Blacktooth: Dude, from some nylon-string peacefulness to the grating, snotty buzz-saw of Electric Eels? This show is ruling tonight!!!
	9:35pm 12539: I'm late!
	9:35pm Droll: RRN, You forgot "Show up late" and "Puke onstage"!
	9:35pm Dave Mandl: @Blacktooth: Why, thanks.
	9:36pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...hard to say whom pioneered that Droll...
	9:38pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...deeply immersed in 'Ptooff!' but know this Deviants not...
	9:40pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...on that tack, Droll - Another thing about Drummers: - Especially Physical. Hard on them. Shows in reunions/revivals...
	9:44pm Dave Mandl: @12539: Better late than never. Much better.
	9:45pm dk: jewlia eisenberg makes a strong case for sicilian tourism with that pizza argument.
	9:45pm Droll: RRN, Charlie Watts is not a super-physical rock drummer. One of the loudest, fastest drummers I ever saw was some jazz dinosaur at least 70 years old. Played with both ends of the sticks so he hardly moved his arms, almost entirely wrist player. But he could unleash a Dennis Chambers scale bomb on demand.
	9:47pm Droll: Pretenders
	9:48pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: - good point - sometimes a drummer will get more plodding when he diminishes...more noticeable in Jazz?...
	9:53pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Charlie Watts a total Jazzbo, of course. - Keith Richards YouTube on Zep: www.youtube.com...
	9:58pm Blacktooth: Was that riffing on Roland Kirk's "Volunteered Slavery" riff of "Hey Jude?" Or am I just crawling up my own musical butt?
	9:58pm Dave Mandl: Droll: You mean "I Go to Sleep"? Yes, but written by Ray Davies, I think. Better known as a Pretenders song, though, I guess.
	9:59pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: No one has said Elvin Jones yet. ...Tony Williams, Roy Haynes...hell, in general Jazz Drummers are proof God loves us & wants us to be Happy...
	10:00pm Blacktooth: Max Roach
	10:00pm Dave Mandl: Well, it was Hey Jude, definitely. Not sure about the Kirk connection.
	10:01pm Dave Mandl: Well, I can't reveal any more names, but I think some of those drummers will be included.
	10:02pm Dave Mandl: If you know me, you know I've got to include the great great Clive Bunker. Ditto for Evan and Jerry Shirley.
	10:02pm tomB: Dave,what's the title again for the British 60s leftfield music book? I'll put it next to Lipstick Traces, the other one you told me about.
	10:04pm Dave Mandl: @tomB: www.amazon.com...
	10:17pm tomB: That same Ron Geesin also shows up in a comic book.
	10:18pm Dave Mandl: Really?!
	10:22pm Dave Mandl: Geesin produced a Bridget St. John LP, and it's absolutely great.
	10:23pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: - lyrical touch on the theremin! ...I wonder - ? - a bit if in fact it isn't so much about 'less than 2%' as being okay w/ better Prog &/or Fusion - esp. undeservedly lesserknown stuff? ...I kinda think Prog's only gotta bad name because mainstream people think it's overplayed Styx or Kansas trax in the 1st place (well - general overindulgence); prettymuch anybody both Smart & a RockFan likes some 'Prog' anyhow...
	10:26pm Dave Mandl: I agree with you on Styx and Kansas. Imposters.
	10:28pm Droll: The debate about Kansas being prog is ongoing. Styx was never considered prog, lacking: flue solos, 7/8 time signature, Mellotron, everyone-solo-at-once, album-side length songs, elfin voiced singing about space, etc. etc. There's NO prog in Styx. Kansas has at least some of those.
	10:28pm G: All they are is schlock in the wind :)
	10:30pm Dave Mandl: @Droll: True. The term "prog" has been distorted over the years. I hated Kansas, but they were obviously trying to copy Yes (good luck with that).
	10:31pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...altho' I also haven't known this Program a really long time... - trying to Google 'Ron Geesin comic book' - & might be more than I wanna get into right now...
	10:32pm Destroit: thumbs up to techno Nashville. That was great.
	10:32pm Droll: Starcastle was obviously trying to copy Yes (did a fine job, actually). I think prog already had a bad enough name by the disco era that it didn't require further distorting. The smear campaign never ended, though. Well maybe, Rush got inducted into the RRHoFaM.
	10:35pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...& the RRHoFaM starts to feel as baffling as the Grammys...
	10:39pm Andrew Waterloo: Something by Rush must have seemed middle-of-the-road enough to make it.
	10:47pm G: Some Rush could pass for 80s hairband music Meanwhile, Genesis got int too, for the poprock There really is a big personal animus between Yes and Ertegun -- check Anderson's lyrics at the beginning of the ABWH album. Ertegun was the main force behind founding the RNRHF. There is RNRHF animus also from the pro-punk rock writers who are still stuck on hating Yes back in 75-76 or so, as a way of getting punk off the ground. I get it, but is there no statute of limitations?
	10:47pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...well - 'less than 2% rock and roll' prob. makes it's point just fine ...but I am saying I'm upfront I don't mind a bit hearing underheard & deserving Prog & Fusion.
	10:48pm fleep: Threepenny Opera-ish
	10:50pm Blacktooth: Say what you want to, this song always kind of kicks out the jams.
	10:50pm Droll: 2%!!! Ahmet died a few years ago, maybe the time is near?
	10:51pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Are the MC5 in the RNRHF - but Rush is? Whatever - but it doesn't speak for me.
	10:52pm G: It speaks for whoever controls the rules and the voting
	10:53pm Dave Mandl: fleep: Yes, that Little Annie disc is extremely Brecht/Weill.
	10:54pm Dave Mandl: Badfinger. C'mon, they were great. Almost better than the Beatles.
	10:55pm fleep: G: It's rigged? I'm shocked. Shocked.
	10:55pm Dave Mandl: I guess no one caught the subtle trick I pulled with the Badfinger song?
	10:55pm bloopy: come and get it
	10:56pm G: Yeah, hard to believe, huh ...
	10:56pm Droll: DM, The extra long pause?
	10:57pm Dave Mandl: Yup. Good catch. I didn't know how obvious it was.
	10:57pm fleep: I thought it was the laptop buffering. Ha!
	10:57pm Droll: I was singing along at home and sounded (more) ridiculous.
	10:58pm Dave Mandl: Haha. I would have completely panicked.
	10:58pm G: Insert Cage's 4:33 there and everyone would notice
	11:00pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...no New York Dolls in the RnRHoF?...nevermind... - Badfinger/Beatles - not an accident of course. The Beatles were pretty much ceasing to be The Beatles by then. ...On the efd/Clay PowerPop throwdown - I think it was Caryn who noted that Power Pop not an esp. commercially successful Genre. Often thot it odd that Beatles are the Biggest Thing Ever, but not the Beatlesque. The Badfinger story is a very very sad one. Some of it is just pure Luck - like The Beatles found a truly caring Manager - & a Producer. - Likewise - people who were too 'Hendrixy' too soon after Hendrix turned the buying public &/or critics off...
	11:02pm Droll: Pshaw! Power pop and prog are two of the most enduring rock genres.
	11:03pm G: with apologies to Faulkner's Nobel address, enduring but not prevailing
	11:03pm Andrew Waterloo: I doubt MC5 will ever make in into the RRHOF. They are just too counter to mainstream sensibility.
	11:05pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: - yeah - thot it was buffering! ...well - Post-Modern, it's a mosaic of any Style(s) anyone wants anyhow...
	11:07pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: You're on it G you literate fellow you.
	11:10pm Dave Mandl: I wouldn't be surprised if the MC5 were inducted. That's the kind of thing they would do--completely ignore them at the time and then make it look like they were hip to them all along. It happens so often.
	11:10pm william.h: ahh looks like that annie anxiety autobiography is already OOP. :(
	11:12pm Dave Mandl: Huh? I thought it was just a few months old.
	11:13pm Dave Mandl: "You Can't Sing the Blues While Drinking Milk"
	11:14pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Andre W - that's it exactly: - What is the relation between Rock & 'mainstream sensibility' ? ...Commercial Rebel Music - what a quaint concept it all is suddenly...one just to has to say that Rock was never about asking for permission in the 1st place & carry on w/ one's own Cultural MicroCosm...
	11:17pm fleep: RRN: Benjamins
	11:17pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: DaveM @ 11:10 - bang.
	11:18pm william.h: maybe the little annie book just isnt available on amazon currently. she's always seemed fascinating and awesome so i bet that would be a great read!
	11:21pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: neato tonalities - 'benjamin' fleep?...Code for 'you're commenting too much dude' ? : )
	11:22pm fleep: RRN: Oh no, as in Franklin, the inventor of the hundred dollar bill. That's why he's on it.
	11:23pm G: benjamins is common urban slang for hundred dollar bills, or sizable money generally, RR63
	11:24pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Money. Right. - Don't see him much - & I'm a cashier...
	11:25pm tahomajohn: roots...^... & .**$
	11:25pm Droll: Benjamins is hip-hop lingo. I don't know how to tell you this, RRN, but rock music is dead. The kids all listen to hippity-hop pantsag music now. Nobody plays any instrument that requires practice, they loop sound effects on a portable computer.
	11:26pm tahomajohn: Copper is moving up big in the market. Arkansas?
	11:26pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Yup. No more strings.
	11:28pm Dave Mandl: I think that's true about rock music. Probably the only way most kids hear it is through their parents.
	11:28pm fleep: (Pulls up pants) Too hippity-hop for the room...
	11:28pm tahomajohn: Now, back to the smelter. The scent of brass.
	11:29pm Andrew Waterloo: People don't even sing any more, the vocals are just animated.
	11:29pm tomB: Turned computer back on to follow playlist. after being jarred by alt Badfinger, only to discover it was all a HOAX! A subliminal promo for the drummer special?
	11:29pm G: Instruments will come back in a few decades among a minuscule coterie. Like artisanal pickle making.
	11:31pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...are those holographic cartoon concerts (Japanese?) getting traction?...
	11:32pm Droll: I would argue rock music died when the people playing rock also grew up with it. Assume rock "starts" with Elvis, the generation that grows up knowing only rock is dominating FM by 1980. DJing and rap started around that time. Coincidence?
	11:34pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: No Droll, not coincidence. G @11:29: What FMU Culture is now?
	11:35pm Kurt Gottschalk: that "alterations" was beautiful! how've i not hears that before?
	11:36pm fleep: Each mainstreaming gives rise to the next rebellion.
	11:36pm Andrew Waterloo: I think Rock 'n roll died when fans became preoccupied with authenticity and started rejecting any advancement as fake and too easy to do. Then everybody grew up around them.
	11:36pm tahomajohn: exo-sellent
	11:36pm 12539: Rock and Roll died because of a well hidden conspiracy among DJs to play no more than 2% on their shows.
	11:37pm tomB: To me, Yes &Genesis are as tedious as Styx &Kansas. Now, Nektar! That's great prog.
	11:37pm G: @RR63: Well, look at the shows on FMU that follow current music in various rock genres, none of which appear on mainstream stations (which in cities and major suburbs cover club music, urban contemporary, and old rock music)
	11:40pm Dave Mandl: @12539: Gulp.
	11:42pm Andrew Waterloo: @12539 I know one of the local rock station DJs. He said he doesn't even care about the music, the station owner programs it, and that guys is stuck in 1995
	11:44pm Droll: tomB, By Yes, do you mean Tales of Topographical Oceans or 90125? And by Genesis do you mean Lamb Lies Down on Broadway or Abacab?
	11:45pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: HipHop starts w/ DJ Herc Brooklyn '72?? - When they talk about Roots of Rap & don't mention DubReggae toasting - I wonder where their heads are @... - In the beginning, HipHop was talking about Urban Realities no one else was talking about @ all - except maybe journalists no one read or a few hardcore Punks. ...Then became Bling SelfAggrandizement - which reflected the Reality also. - One Movement contains seed of another, of course. Or rather - Rap became the New Rebellion - & then the New Establishment, of course. Some of those guys made incomprehensible bank. ...Urban talk to Soundtrack of Gabriel Urbain Fauré. The juxtapostion somewhat Clockwork Orange...
	11:50pm tomB: While I was offline looking for the Ron Geesin comic, I found an earlier issue I hadn't read. The series is Matt Howarth's Savage Henry o/o Langhorne & Jenkintown PA, but published in Livonia MI. Geesin is a major character, but so is his son, Fraser, as well as Conrad Schnitzler. But this was back in '95. Let me know if you want more detail, and I can provide next week after I actually read #1 (can't remember too much from the other issue.)
	11:51pm fleep: The air is full of cricket noise tonight, listening al fresco. The cricket noises are mixing with the Berthet perfectly.
	11:53pm Dave Mandl: Great! Where are you located again?
	11:53pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Oh - Matt Howarth - ! ...Used to see him in 'Heavy Metal' - the comics mag. - Streets beyond the other stuff!
	11:54pm tomB: @Droll There's a difference indeed between the LPs you mention, but to me it's all tedious! Maybe I'd feel different if they disappeared after one LP.
	11:55pm fleep: Dave: Studio City, which is more bucolic in parts than you'd think.
	11:56pm Dave Mandl: Right, I remember. Yes, I love it there. Was there a few years ago.
	11:57pm Dave Mandl: I don't like to drive, so I wouldn't survive in LA.
	12:00am Revolution Rabbit Nov63: I lived in Santa Barbara 16 years. ...Rich people go wherever they want whenever they want...
	12:00am 12539: Thanks Dave!
	12:01am Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Thx DM.
	12:01am Dave Mandl: Hey, thanks for listening/typing folks. Have a great week.

World of Echo with Dave Mandl: Playlist from April 21, 2013

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